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Same with the push for vaccine passports. Really gets my fur up and question why the need for heavy hands.

azinman2 5y ago
It's already been the case that various countries require certain vaccines to enter, or other health clearances. These kinds of standards and even more exceptional for animals, and ultra protective for plants. Why is this any different? Why wouldn't you want someone protected from bringing a (newly) preventable disease into your country?
- skjoldr 5y ago
  Because a passport represents a centralized storage of medical data, and that's always a bad idea.
  - 542458 5y ago
    I don’t think there’s any central storage for ICVPs today. As far as I know the records are just held by whoever normally holds your health records - the WHO trusts centres to only certify responsibly.
  - swader999 5y ago
    And Hippa concerns, this status will likely be resold as well.
    - 542458 5y ago
      There’s no such thing as HIPPA. It’s HIPAA. And it’s nowhere near as broad in terms of privacy as most people believe - it’s extremely targeted in that regard.
      - swader999 5y ago
        Ok thanks. I'm not American, I still value medical privacy regardless.
stavros 5y ago
Because people who are in the ICU because they refuse to get vaccinated are costing the taxpayer a shitload of money. I'd be all for "you can stay unvaccinated if you like, but you won't get an ICU bed if you get severe COVID", but that's a heavier hand than a passport.
- anonymouse008 5y ago
  I don’t know… we let people ruin their lives by throwing dice. At least in the US, it’s a country founded on chance over conformity.
- gccsvv 5y ago
  What about the giant portion of overweight Americans? Should we forcibly restrict their calorie intake?
  - ta988 5y ago
    No, we should attack the companies that sell junk food.
    - callmejoe 5y ago
      or maybe just not eat like a pig? personal responsibility is a thing, you know.
- blfr 5y ago
  That's ridiculous. We don't expect people to get flu vaccines before extending medical care. We don't even expect basic sexual hygiene and extend extremely expensive HIV treatments to people who have tempted fate much, much more seriously than skipping a vaccince.
  - swader999 5y ago
    It's a concerning precedent. These rights to travel, to enter a store and so on were never restricted before but now they may be. What about me, should I risk shot number two now that I've seen a flame heme show up on a routine retina scan just yesterday and am reading that this is one of the things they are seeing increase from the AZ vaccine? Will I be limited in travel and employment if I don't?
542458 5y ago
Serious question, how is a vaccine passport any different from a proof of immunization (one common form being the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis), which is standard fare for travelling to/from many countries already? We’ve been using these to combat the spread of diseases like yellow fever for years.
- blfr 5y ago
  It's being introduced to countries where such measures are new and it's being used within borders. The idea is that venue operators for concerts and other events will be checking your vaccination status. I find that Black Mirror level dystopian personally.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - tim333 5y ago
    Israel tried a domestic one and it seemed to work ok but had become kind of redundant as they have basically got rid of covid (cases from 8000 a day to 10). It wasn't very enforced - just a bit of paper you could wave to go to the gym etc. They've scrapped it now as no longer needed.
- tekknik 5y ago
  Because we don’t force people to get all vaccines to travel. Requiring a vaccine passport for the covid vaccine forces people to get it, which is the real reason people are advocating for it.
  - ikt 5y ago
    Yes we do? We've had them for ages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_international_travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_i...
    - atq2119 5y ago
fooey 5y ago
There's long established precedent that schools and colleges are allowed to require proof of vaccination. The idea isn't remotely new, and is nothing so odious as critics claim
- JackFr 5y ago
  I am not a lawyer, nor a public health legal expert but I think there is a significant legal difference between COVID and ordinary vaccine requirements because the COVID vaccines are only authorized for emergency use. I think schools and colleges requiring vaccination are also offering accommodations (distance learning, etc.) to avoid legal fights, while if the vaccines were fully authorized they would not.
  - sneak 5y ago
    > because the COVID vaccines are only authorized for emergency use. This is only a technical, legal distinction. They have been administered rapidly to a significant fraction of the population; their specific legal status is mostly irrelevant at this point. They are GA in practice, the release has been cut and people are running it. Paper pushers slapping an ass-covering "beta" on the splash screen are behind the times.

It's already been the case that various countries require certain vaccines to enter, or other health clearances. These kinds of standards and even more exceptional for animals, and ultra protective for plants. Why is this any different? Why wouldn't you want someone protected from bringing a (newly) preventable disease into your country?

skjoldr 5y ago
Because a passport represents a centralized storage of medical data, and that's always a bad idea.
- 542458 5y ago
  I don’t think there’s any central storage for ICVPs today. As far as I know the records are just held by whoever normally holds your health records - the WHO trusts centres to only certify responsibly.
- swader999 5y ago
  And Hippa concerns, this status will likely be resold as well.
  - 542458 5y ago
    There’s no such thing as HIPPA. It’s HIPAA. And it’s nowhere near as broad in terms of privacy as most people believe - it’s extremely targeted in that regard.
    - swader999 5y ago
      Ok thanks. I'm not American, I still value medical privacy regardless.

stavros 5y ago

Because people who are in the ICU because they refuse to get vaccinated are costing the taxpayer a shitload of money. I'd be all for "you can stay unvaccinated if you like, but you won't get an ICU bed if you get severe COVID", but that's a heavier hand than a passport.

anonymouse008 5y ago
I don’t know… we let people ruin their lives by throwing dice. At least in the US, it’s a country founded on chance over conformity.
gccsvv 5y ago
What about the giant portion of overweight Americans? Should we forcibly restrict their calorie intake?
- ta988 5y ago
  No, we should attack the companies that sell junk food.
  - callmejoe 5y ago
    or maybe just not eat like a pig? personal responsibility is a thing, you know.
blfr 5y ago
That's ridiculous. We don't expect people to get flu vaccines before extending medical care. We don't even expect basic sexual hygiene and extend extremely expensive HIV treatments to people who have tempted fate much, much more seriously than skipping a vaccince.
- swader999 5y ago
  It's a concerning precedent. These rights to travel, to enter a store and so on were never restricted before but now they may be. What about me, should I risk shot number two now that I've seen a flame heme show up on a routine retina scan just yesterday and am reading that this is one of the things they are seeing increase from the AZ vaccine? Will I be limited in travel and employment if I don't?

542458 5y ago

Serious question, how is a vaccine passport any different from a proof of immunization (one common form being the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis), which is standard fare for travelling to/from many countries already? We’ve been using these to combat the spread of diseases like yellow fever for years.

blfr 5y ago
It's being introduced to countries where such measures are new and it's being used within borders. The idea is that venue operators for concerts and other events will be checking your vaccination status. I find that Black Mirror level dystopian personally.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tim333 5y ago
  Israel tried a domestic one and it seemed to work ok but had become kind of redundant as they have basically got rid of covid (cases from 8000 a day to 10). It wasn't very enforced - just a bit of paper you could wave to go to the gym etc. They've scrapped it now as no longer needed.
tekknik 5y ago
Because we don’t force people to get all vaccines to travel. Requiring a vaccine passport for the covid vaccine forces people to get it, which is the real reason people are advocating for it.
- ikt 5y ago
  Yes we do? We've had them for ages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_international_travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_i...
  - atq2119 5y ago

fooey 5y ago

There's long established precedent that schools and colleges are allowed to require proof of vaccination. The idea isn't remotely new, and is nothing so odious as critics claim

JackFr 5y ago
I am not a lawyer, nor a public health legal expert but I think there is a significant legal difference between COVID and ordinary vaccine requirements because the COVID vaccines are only authorized for emergency use. I think schools and colleges requiring vaccination are also offering accommodations (distance learning, etc.) to avoid legal fights, while if the vaccines were fully authorized they would not.
- sneak 5y ago
  > because the COVID vaccines are only authorized for emergency use. This is only a technical, legal distinction. They have been administered rapidly to a significant fraction of the population; their specific legal status is mostly irrelevant at this point. They are GA in practice, the release has been cut and people are running it. Paper pushers slapping an ass-covering "beta" on the splash screen are behind the times.