5 ms·

I just happen to know a lot of anesthesiologists and they went to all of med school - I didn't. They were easy to ask and know more than me. The first nurse, ag

by macksd 5y ago

I just happen to know a lot of anesthesiologists and they went to all of med school - I didn't. They were easy to ask and know more than me. The first nurse, again, more medical education than me to begin with, was very interested in the science beyond his work and was obviously briefed on the situation at work as it changed. I just figured it might have been more common knowledge than it turned out to be. My point is more that these people have far more medical education than the average person I interact with on social media, and didn't look down on my question but also wanted to know. People who knew less than them and knew even less than me were mad that I would dare even ask.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
thatfrenchguy 5y ago
It's a little bit like asking a random software engineer on the street on how GPU drivers work internally: they're unlikely to have an actual informed opinion.
- Kinrany 5y ago
  That's a reasonable start if you want to know and the best alternative is to ask a random person who doesn't know anything about computers at all.
- hackinthebochs 5y ago
  But there's no reason to know they don't know that as a layman.
- azinman2 5y ago
  But compared to someone who isn't in CS, they'd at least understand that GPUs exist, might be able to speculate on what's needed, and have an idea of who to even ask. I don't work on operating systems but I had a CS education, so I know enough about the kinds of things it needs to worry about that I could answer about the building blocks of a kernel in a way that I feel would be largely correct.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    I think the quality of the speculation you'd get from a random software developer on the design of GPU drivers is, in fact, probably a good model for the quality of vaccinology speculation you'd get from a random anesthesiologist. But a neat thing about HN is that there are people here who've been to med school and can presumably chime in. What I can tell you personally is that vaccinology seems to involve a lot of centrifuging of rabbit poop, which is something I don't think they do a lot of in med school.
    - gus_massa 5y ago
      Probably the person that is producing the vaccine is not the same person that is running the clinical trials and it's not the same person that is calculation the statistics and writing the final paper.
- lethologica 5y ago
  They still know more than I do, an average Joe who makes and sells socks for a living, though.
- lhoff 5y ago
  Its actually a perfect example. But for the opposit argument. A random software engineer has a much deeper understanding about the inner workings of GPU then the average non-software engineer. So its a perfect analogy for asking a nurse about a health related topic. He probably doesn't know much about the immune system but he definetly knows more then the average population.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    Really? :D I highly doubt that, as I personally did dabble with a bit of OpenGL and still know jackshit about GPUs. People are likely to overestimate their knowledge on things they know little about.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  Worse, maybe even an ill-informed opinion since they might feel like they should know how GPU drivers work since they're in the industry and start spouting off smart sounding techno-babble. I know a few nurses myself, they're not a good source for medical advice but people trust them anyway. Hell, my mom does clerical work in a hospital, and people ask her for medical advice.
- freyr 5y ago
  The alternative here is ignoring the software engineer, and instead asking the crazy person on the corner who’s shouting at the sky and wearing his underwear on his head. Getting the perspective of the software engineer is a reasonable step, and certainly better than basing your beliefs on the rankings of the insane person.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    No, I think the alternative here is asking vaccinologists.
    - freyr 5y ago
      The alternative I was referring to is wherever Enrico Weigelt got his information, which certainly was not a vaccinologist. Of course, if you have access to a vaccinologist (is this a recognized profession? I checked two dictionaries and neither contain the word), you should ask them. Or you can look up their opinion online [1]. Most will agree what the doctors and nurse said. [1] https://health.mountsinai.org/blog/esteemed-vaccinologist-weighs-in-on-new-vaccines-and-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-pandemic/ https://health.mountsinai.org/blog/esteemed-vaccinologist-we...
    - freyr 5y ago
      Sorry, I didn’t read all of of the original comment earlier. Now I see where you’re coming from with the suggestion to go straight to a qualified source instead of asking a bunch of random people.
    - Aachen 5y ago
      I have some more questions (serious), can I have the number of one of these people? Point being, it's not that straightforward unless there's someone you already know that is willing to share their contact information and they actually have the time to talk to you. I totally see the point about going for second-best first until you know you have a question worth their time and not something that's obvious. (Although the answer in this case did seem obvious to me as a software person, or at least I'd have guessed they can see the amount of anti-covid-stuff dropping at different rates.)
- rfrey 5y ago
  More like asking an microelectronics engineer how 3 phase motors work. She probably took a course in school although it may have been awhile and it's not her specialty. It's a feature of engineering and scientific education that there is a corpus of knowledge that every person in a discipline (say EE, or medicine) is expected to have learned (if not retained). I imagine all doctors learn quite a bit about the immune system in medical school. Given that a "random software engineer on the street" may have a CS degree, an MBA, a 6 week bootcamp, or be totally self-taught, the example isn't analogous IMO.
- macksd 5y ago
  Except here's the thing: I do know how GPU drivers work internally so assuming I don't when someone wants to know isn't helpful, and I did end up getting referred to a helpful answer by one of the medical friends who had a connection and could make an introduction. I can't believe this is being dismissed as a moronic approach when it actually worked and I just asked in casual conversation with friends - all of whom were actually intrigued by the question as well and wanted to know the answer when I eventually learnt it. If most of the whole world came to a screeching halt for the better part of a year and the solution turned out to be GPU drivers, I as a software engineer would become intensely interested in understanding them and would not at all be surprised if my less technical friends asked me for some pointers. In the end, my point was that people who aren't even software engineers were telling me to stop trying to understand GPU drivers because GPU drivers are a solved problem and I should just trust NVIDIA.
tchalla 5y ago
People who went to medical school may not know how to assimilate, read, synthesise and make conclusions about scientific literature. Yes, the average social media person wouldn't either but better ask the scientists.
TchoBeer 5y ago
I think there's a bit of difference between asking a medical professional in person and asking a generalized audience over social media. Asking "do we know if immunity from the vaccine lasts longer" that A) can come across as a statement in the form of a question (e.g. "no we don't these vaccines are rediculous" etc) B) even if it doesn't, if you ask that and no one knows and other people see that, it can cause them to have unscientific doubts about vaccines, even if that wasn't intended.

by macksd 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

thatfrenchguy 5y ago

It's a little bit like asking a random software engineer on the street on how GPU drivers work internally: they're unlikely to have an actual informed opinion.

Kinrany 5y ago
That's a reasonable start if you want to know and the best alternative is to ask a random person who doesn't know anything about computers at all.
hackinthebochs 5y ago
But there's no reason to know they don't know that as a layman.
azinman2 5y ago
But compared to someone who isn't in CS, they'd at least understand that GPUs exist, might be able to speculate on what's needed, and have an idea of who to even ask. I don't work on operating systems but I had a CS education, so I know enough about the kinds of things it needs to worry about that I could answer about the building blocks of a kernel in a way that I feel would be largely correct.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I think the quality of the speculation you'd get from a random software developer on the design of GPU drivers is, in fact, probably a good model for the quality of vaccinology speculation you'd get from a random anesthesiologist. But a neat thing about HN is that there are people here who've been to med school and can presumably chime in. What I can tell you personally is that vaccinology seems to involve a lot of centrifuging of rabbit poop, which is something I don't think they do a lot of in med school.
  - gus_massa 5y ago
    Probably the person that is producing the vaccine is not the same person that is running the clinical trials and it's not the same person that is calculation the statistics and writing the final paper.
lethologica 5y ago
They still know more than I do, an average Joe who makes and sells socks for a living, though.
lhoff 5y ago
Its actually a perfect example. But for the opposit argument. A random software engineer has a much deeper understanding about the inner workings of GPU then the average non-software engineer. So its a perfect analogy for asking a nurse about a health related topic. He probably doesn't know much about the immune system but he definetly knows more then the average population.
- kaba0 5y ago
  Really? :D I highly doubt that, as I personally did dabble with a bit of OpenGL and still know jackshit about GPUs. People are likely to overestimate their knowledge on things they know little about.
kgwxd 5y ago
Worse, maybe even an ill-informed opinion since they might feel like they should know how GPU drivers work since they're in the industry and start spouting off smart sounding techno-babble. I know a few nurses myself, they're not a good source for medical advice but people trust them anyway. Hell, my mom does clerical work in a hospital, and people ask her for medical advice.
freyr 5y ago
The alternative here is ignoring the software engineer, and instead asking the crazy person on the corner who’s shouting at the sky and wearing his underwear on his head. Getting the perspective of the software engineer is a reasonable step, and certainly better than basing your beliefs on the rankings of the insane person.
- tptacek 5y ago
  No, I think the alternative here is asking vaccinologists.
  - freyr 5y ago
    The alternative I was referring to is wherever Enrico Weigelt got his information, which certainly was not a vaccinologist. Of course, if you have access to a vaccinologist (is this a recognized profession? I checked two dictionaries and neither contain the word), you should ask them. Or you can look up their opinion online [1]. Most will agree what the doctors and nurse said. [1] https://health.mountsinai.org/blog/esteemed-vaccinologist-weighs-in-on-new-vaccines-and-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-pandemic/ https://health.mountsinai.org/blog/esteemed-vaccinologist-we...
  - freyr 5y ago
    Sorry, I didn’t read all of of the original comment earlier. Now I see where you’re coming from with the suggestion to go straight to a qualified source instead of asking a bunch of random people.
  - Aachen 5y ago
    I have some more questions (serious), can I have the number of one of these people? Point being, it's not that straightforward unless there's someone you already know that is willing to share their contact information and they actually have the time to talk to you. I totally see the point about going for second-best first until you know you have a question worth their time and not something that's obvious. (Although the answer in this case did seem obvious to me as a software person, or at least I'd have guessed they can see the amount of anti-covid-stuff dropping at different rates.)
rfrey 5y ago
More like asking an microelectronics engineer how 3 phase motors work. She probably took a course in school although it may have been awhile and it's not her specialty. It's a feature of engineering and scientific education that there is a corpus of knowledge that every person in a discipline (say EE, or medicine) is expected to have learned (if not retained). I imagine all doctors learn quite a bit about the immune system in medical school. Given that a "random software engineer on the street" may have a CS degree, an MBA, a 6 week bootcamp, or be totally self-taught, the example isn't analogous IMO.
macksd 5y ago
Except here's the thing: I do know how GPU drivers work internally so assuming I don't when someone wants to know isn't helpful, and I did end up getting referred to a helpful answer by one of the medical friends who had a connection and could make an introduction. I can't believe this is being dismissed as a moronic approach when it actually worked and I just asked in casual conversation with friends - all of whom were actually intrigued by the question as well and wanted to know the answer when I eventually learnt it. If most of the whole world came to a screeching halt for the better part of a year and the solution turned out to be GPU drivers, I as a software engineer would become intensely interested in understanding them and would not at all be surprised if my less technical friends asked me for some pointers. In the end, my point was that people who aren't even software engineers were telling me to stop trying to understand GPU drivers because GPU drivers are a solved problem and I should just trust NVIDIA.

tchalla 5y ago

People who went to medical school may not know how to assimilate, read, synthesise and make conclusions about scientific literature. Yes, the average social media person wouldn't either but better ask the scientists.

TchoBeer 5y ago

I think there's a bit of difference between asking a medical professional in person and asking a generalized audience over social media. Asking "do we know if immunity from the vaccine lasts longer" that A) can come across as a statement in the form of a question (e.g. "no we don't these vaccines are rediculous" etc) B) even if it doesn't, if you ask that and no one knows and other people see that, it can cause them to have unscientific doubts about vaccines, even if that wasn't intended.