5 ms·

I'm surprised this perspective is not made more often. It's now much easier to work past 5 or 6pm or whenever you would normally end. Needing to return home to

by idrios 5y ago

I'm surprised this perspective is not made more often. It's now much easier to work past 5 or 6pm or whenever you would normally end. Needing to return home to your family is no longer an excuse to stop working because you can be with your family while at work. All it takes is one developer on your team working evenings or weekends for the other developers to feel like they need to be working late too. There's also the fact that managers right now are more concerned about whether their team is working enough, rather than being concerned about their team working too much.

ricardobeat 5y ago
I find myself doing the opposite. It's much easier for me to step away at 6pm sharp knowing that if anything happens I can jump back in an instant, vs the worry of being the first to leave the office, and being stuck in a train for a half hour.
- jlarocco 5y ago
  Funny how different people are on this. When I worked in an office I never worried about being the first to leave, and didn't even realize other people do. For me, the biggest downside of working from home is how easy it is to get distracted by non-work. I go grab a coffee and end up putting dishes away, cleaning up, etc. and next thing I know an hour's passed by so I'm working late or feeling guilty. I've been working on my time management, in general, and that's helping.
  - slavapestov 5y ago
    > For me, the biggest downside of working from home is how easy it is to get distracted by non-work. I go grab a coffee and end up putting dishes away, cleaning up, etc. Sometimes taking a short break like that is the best way to make progress on a difficult problem though. Realistically we probably get 2 or 3 hours of actual work done in a day. Everything else is a bonus and it comes and goes over time.
    - nandhinianand 5y ago
      I've been running rescuetime on my computer for most of a decade, and "my developer time"(time on terminal, few documentation sites like SO, editor etc...) goal was initially 1hr 30 minutes, but nowadays it is stuck at 3 hours.. and been not filled except for rare days.
  - sneak 5y ago
    > When I worked in an office I never worried about being the first to leave, and didn't even realize other people do. A lot of it is scarcity vs abundance mindset. Many people are quite scared to lose their jobs. I know people making six figures who would be in deep shit if they had a month of no paychecks while switching jobs.
- jdhn 5y ago
  Completely agree. It helped that I have a recurring meeting in Outlook that starts when I leave work, and goes for an hour. I find that this block prevents people from scheduling surprise last minute meetings, and keeps me from working longer than 8 hours a day (I start at 8 AM and go until 4 PM).
- vladTheInhaler 5y ago
  I've seen both responses from people I know. One person has always been a bit of a workaholic, and used work as sort of a coping mechanism for anxiety. As one might imagine, they started working much much longer hours. Another person I know got in the habit of working from about 10 to 3 or so, to the point where I was worried for their job. I think the lesson is that people's relationship with work is just a highly individual, and people will have very divergent outcomes.
  - lelanthran 5y ago
    Both of those are rational responses to the modern work culture. The two extremes are: 1. Working as hard as possible to get a promotion over the next person working as hard as possible. 2. Doing the bare minimum to not get fired. Anything in between is, logically, irrational, because you're doing more work than necessary. Luckily, companies have found the levers for most humans and tend to get them working in between the two extremes.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  > knowing that if anything happens I can jump back in an instant That’s the unfortunate part. WFH at large can only sustain if that hard line is drawn - end work day for good, disconnect, connect back tomorrow morning! No fluid working hours and being ready to “jump back in”.
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    It's just the feeling of not making yourself unavailable during what are still working hours for others, not about being available after say 7pm. And I haven't actually needed to do that more than once or twice.
- dagw 5y ago
  I liked the fact that when I left the office it virtually impossible for me to jump back into anything until I got back to the office the next day. Now all my work is just sitting there in the next room just waiting for me to jump back in any time 24/7.
lamontcg 5y ago
As someone who has done full time WFH for more than 5 years one skill you need to pick up is the ability to shut down around 5-6pm and avoid work on the weekends, which actually takes some self-discipline.
- crossroadsguy 5y ago
  And that needs 1. Understanding colleagues 2. Sane boss and sane company 3. Similar culture - company wide Otherwise you’re just buying another recipe for stress and in some cases confrontations as well.
  - mech422 5y ago
    In other words, things you should probably expect at a place you would want to work?
  - lamontcg 5y ago
    Well yeah if the whole company is doing remote first, everyone is going to be in exactly the same boat, problem sorta solves itself.
CalRobert 5y ago
"Needing to return home to your family is no longer an excuse to stop working because you can be with your family while at work." If you have young children or infants you can spend your time caring for them and worrying that those with older kids (or no kids!) will judge you.
koyote 5y ago
> It's now much easier to work past 5 or 6pm or whenever you would normally end It is much easier but I also believe it's something people will get out of the habit of (or at least I hope). It really isn't a difficult habit to break. Since working from home I do exactly the same as I would in the office: At the same time every day I close the laptop and put it away. It's actually easier for me to get away because no one is stopping me on the way out to ask me some questions or to just have a quick chat.
taneq 5y ago
Your family must be very different to mine, because when mine are around my productivity is strictly zero.
- FpUser 5y ago
  Same here. That is why my wife's office is on a main floor of the house and mine is in the basement. She's been remote for at least 10 years I think and I ran my own product development business since 2000.
  - mech422 5y ago
    its only an issue for my girlfriend and I when we're both on calls at the same time. I use a wireless 2.4Ghz headset so I can go outside on the patio - solves the issue nicely :-)

by idrios 5y ago

ricardobeat 5y ago

I find myself doing the opposite. It's much easier for me to step away at 6pm sharp knowing that if anything happens I can jump back in an instant, vs the worry of being the first to leave the office, and being stuck in a train for a half hour.

jlarocco 5y ago
Funny how different people are on this. When I worked in an office I never worried about being the first to leave, and didn't even realize other people do. For me, the biggest downside of working from home is how easy it is to get distracted by non-work. I go grab a coffee and end up putting dishes away, cleaning up, etc. and next thing I know an hour's passed by so I'm working late or feeling guilty. I've been working on my time management, in general, and that's helping.
- slavapestov 5y ago
  > For me, the biggest downside of working from home is how easy it is to get distracted by non-work. I go grab a coffee and end up putting dishes away, cleaning up, etc. Sometimes taking a short break like that is the best way to make progress on a difficult problem though. Realistically we probably get 2 or 3 hours of actual work done in a day. Everything else is a bonus and it comes and goes over time.
  - nandhinianand 5y ago
    I've been running rescuetime on my computer for most of a decade, and "my developer time"(time on terminal, few documentation sites like SO, editor etc...) goal was initially 1hr 30 minutes, but nowadays it is stuck at 3 hours.. and been not filled except for rare days.
- sneak 5y ago
  > When I worked in an office I never worried about being the first to leave, and didn't even realize other people do. A lot of it is scarcity vs abundance mindset. Many people are quite scared to lose their jobs. I know people making six figures who would be in deep shit if they had a month of no paychecks while switching jobs.
jdhn 5y ago
Completely agree. It helped that I have a recurring meeting in Outlook that starts when I leave work, and goes for an hour. I find that this block prevents people from scheduling surprise last minute meetings, and keeps me from working longer than 8 hours a day (I start at 8 AM and go until 4 PM).
vladTheInhaler 5y ago
I've seen both responses from people I know. One person has always been a bit of a workaholic, and used work as sort of a coping mechanism for anxiety. As one might imagine, they started working much much longer hours. Another person I know got in the habit of working from about 10 to 3 or so, to the point where I was worried for their job. I think the lesson is that people's relationship with work is just a highly individual, and people will have very divergent outcomes.
- lelanthran 5y ago
  Both of those are rational responses to the modern work culture. The two extremes are: 1. Working as hard as possible to get a promotion over the next person working as hard as possible. 2. Doing the bare minimum to not get fired. Anything in between is, logically, irrational, because you're doing more work than necessary. Luckily, companies have found the levers for most humans and tend to get them working in between the two extremes.
crossroadsguy 5y ago
> knowing that if anything happens I can jump back in an instant That’s the unfortunate part. WFH at large can only sustain if that hard line is drawn - end work day for good, disconnect, connect back tomorrow morning! No fluid working hours and being ready to “jump back in”.
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  It's just the feeling of not making yourself unavailable during what are still working hours for others, not about being available after say 7pm. And I haven't actually needed to do that more than once or twice.
dagw 5y ago
I liked the fact that when I left the office it virtually impossible for me to jump back into anything until I got back to the office the next day. Now all my work is just sitting there in the next room just waiting for me to jump back in any time 24/7.

lamontcg 5y ago

As someone who has done full time WFH for more than 5 years one skill you need to pick up is the ability to shut down around 5-6pm and avoid work on the weekends, which actually takes some self-discipline.

crossroadsguy 5y ago
And that needs 1. Understanding colleagues 2. Sane boss and sane company 3. Similar culture - company wide Otherwise you’re just buying another recipe for stress and in some cases confrontations as well.
- mech422 5y ago
  In other words, things you should probably expect at a place you would want to work?
- lamontcg 5y ago
  Well yeah if the whole company is doing remote first, everyone is going to be in exactly the same boat, problem sorta solves itself.

CalRobert 5y ago

"Needing to return home to your family is no longer an excuse to stop working because you can be with your family while at work." If you have young children or infants you can spend your time caring for them and worrying that those with older kids (or no kids!) will judge you.

koyote 5y ago

> It's now much easier to work past 5 or 6pm or whenever you would normally end It is much easier but I also believe it's something people will get out of the habit of (or at least I hope). It really isn't a difficult habit to break. Since working from home I do exactly the same as I would in the office: At the same time every day I close the laptop and put it away. It's actually easier for me to get away because no one is stopping me on the way out to ask me some questions or to just have a quick chat.

taneq 5y ago

Your family must be very different to mine, because when mine are around my productivity is strictly zero.

FpUser 5y ago
Same here. That is why my wife's office is on a main floor of the house and mine is in the basement. She's been remote for at least 10 years I think and I ran my own product development business since 2000.
- mech422 5y ago
  its only an issue for my girlfriend and I when we're both on calls at the same time. I use a wireless 2.4Ghz headset so I can go outside on the patio - solves the issue nicely :-)