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What I'm very interested in ATM(just now after reading this topic) is how the process of evolution really works. Not the selection so much, but the actual mutat

by Rapzid 5y ago

What I'm very interested in ATM(just now after reading this topic) is how the process of evolution really works. Not the selection so much, but the actual mutations. The last I ever learned about it, and perhaps the common belief, is that random-ish gene mutations account for it. 4 billion years doesn't seem like enough time to account for all that unless changes are heavily weighted towards doing something somewhat useful. Like there is a system at play.. Lego blocks vs bits. IDK.

idiotsecant 5y ago
4 billion years is a very, very, very long time.
- Rapzid 5y ago
  Yeah but 4 billion is nothing when talking about a measly 256bit space, much less a 3 million base DNA strand.
throwamon 5y ago
If you think evolution is just selection and mutations, I can see how you'd think it's not enough (even though selection is usually a very strong force that "locks good mutations in place", which can create a compounding effect in chances of an organism's fitness, so a long time of mutations + locking good ones in place should be almost enough to convince you if you do the math). It's been some time since I studied this so I'm just going to write whatever comes to mind. Maybe a key part of what's missing in your understanding is not so much "micro" genetics but biogeography and population genetics. You'd also want to check simulations and comparisons with real-world data on some models to see how a population evolves to see that it "really works". It's important to understand that there are different models, and for each one there's a set of "forces" and important parameters. The bigger picture is, it's the whole interplay between mutation, selection, genetic drift, gene flow; things like differences in population size over time and space, migrations, isolation and reconnection, etc. that makes it work. You might also want to take a look into genetic/functional/morphological modularity. I've just skimmed these articles, but they seem relevant: https://www.nature.com/articles/hdy2010136 https://www.nature.com/articles/hdy2010136 https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/natural-selection-genetic-drift-and-gene-flow-15186648/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/natural-se... There's much more but my memory is murky. Ideally you would want to take a course or read a textbook on evolution. A few popsci books are ok (Dawkins, E. O. Wilson). TLDR: What the other commenter said -- 4 billion years is a very, very, very long time.

by Rapzid 5y ago

idiotsecant 5y ago

4 billion years is a very, very, very long time.

Rapzid 5y ago
Yeah but 4 billion is nothing when talking about a measly 256bit space, much less a 3 million base DNA strand.

throwamon 5y ago

If you think evolution is just selection and mutations, I can see how you'd think it's not enough (even though selection is usually a very strong force that "locks good mutations in place", which can create a compounding effect in chances of an organism's fitness, so a long time of mutations + locking good ones in place should be almost enough to convince you if you do the math). It's been some time since I studied this so I'm just going to write whatever comes to mind. Maybe a key part of what's missing in your understanding is not so much "micro" genetics but biogeography and population genetics. You'd also want to check simulations and comparisons with real-world data on some models to see how a population evolves to see that it "really works". It's important to understand that there are different models, and for each one there's a set of "forces" and important parameters. The bigger picture is, it's the whole interplay between mutation, selection, genetic drift, gene flow; things like differences in population size over time and space, migrations, isolation and reconnection, etc. that makes it work. You might also want to take a look into genetic/functional/morphological modularity. I've just skimmed these articles, but they seem relevant: https://www.nature.com/articles/hdy2010136 https://www.nature.com/articles/hdy2010136 https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/natural-selection-genetic-drift-and-gene-flow-15186648/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/natural-se... There's much more but my memory is murky. Ideally you would want to take a course or read a textbook on evolution. A few popsci books are ok (Dawkins, E. O. Wilson). TLDR: What the other commenter said -- 4 billion years is a very, very, very long time.