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What a bunch of fucking scumbags. Politicians need to step in and make this illegal. This industry is disgusting. Now you are talking about regular people tryin

What a bunch of fucking scumbags. Politicians need to step in and make this illegal. This industry is disgusting. Now you are talking about regular people trying to self diagnose to avoid going to the ER in fear of getting a large medical bill. Fuck these people.

TX0098812 5y ago
And that's putting it politely.
dahdum 5y ago
> Politicians need to step in and make this illegal. That would only make the situation even worse, hospitals would raise their absurd gouging rates even higher if government required it. Reform is needed but on both sides of that table.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  Break up the insurers (or nationalise the medical care funding system), break up (or nationalise) the hospitals.
jvanderbot 5y ago
When is the last time you went to an ER? We went recently in southern california, and it was saturated by people stopping in for sniffles, flu, and other things that should have been handled in a regular doctor visit. The nurse said as much when we asked if we should go somewhere else for (what turned out to be) an actual emergency. We got right in, thanks to triage. Is this related to the article? Probably not. But I never get enough chances to point out the myriad abuses and misuses of the health care system.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > We went recently in southern california, and it was saturated by people stopping in for sniffles, flu, and other things that should have been handled in a regular doctor visit. This is likely due to an inability to access "regular doctor" care. Either for lack of insurance (which they can't afford), or a giant deductible (which they also can't afford). The doctor's office can turn them away for an unpaid bill; the ER cannot.
- musicale 5y ago
  As I understand it, it's not primarily an abuse of the system by greedy and wicked freeloaders, but a very predictable result of the lack of safety net coverage in the US. Specifically, people without insurance end up at the ER because the ER can't legally turn them away for not having insurance or not being able to pay. Another predictable consequence is patient dumping, where patients who cannot pay at one hospital are sent to the ER at another.
- toss1 5y ago
  And I've been to plenty of ER visits in many parts of the country and seen nothing like this (although there have been waits), and seen effective triage, including a patient I was with walking in (looking fine) and being admitted in like three minutes flat based on an initial cardiac test. And you got treated quickly also. Perhaps you are in a local minima of bad conditions. Even if what you saw is widespread, it is still no excuse for this kind of stupid response from insurers. It is not even close to justified.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  At my local hospital, the ER and walk-in clinic have doors next to each other. The idea that the ER can't triage non-emergency care is some sort of bureaucratic construction designed to facilitate making money.
toss1 5y ago
Yup, these are the same people who run software to scan for plausible errors in past insurance applications, focusing on people who get the most expensive diseases, then use those errors (e.g., a misstatement or omission of a completely minor and unrelated condition or treatment), as a pretext to now deny coverage. So, not the patient, who has played by the rules their entire life, and properly paid into the system, is now literally fighting for their life, probably without a job, and is now denied the healthcare that they had paid for their entire life. And when a case manager denies their claim and saves the company $500K, they get promoted for killing the patient. This is not rumor. This is sworn testimony before congress. "Fuck these people" indeed!! (except they may no longer qualify as people)
- fouric 5y ago
  > sworn testimony before congress Citation please?
  - toss1 5y ago
    Just Google "health insurance recision congressional testimony". There were many, many hours of testimony about the dishonest practice. It was systemic in the industry before it was banned by the ACA/Obamacare. This is one of the most important features of the ACA. I've posted below only one of the first appearing links to articles on the testimony of industry insiders [1]. I don't have handy the link to the video I found most memorable. It was a woman who worked at a large insurer, who rescinded the insurance of a man with an expensive disease, who'd never missed a payment, and who died fighting to get the insurer to pay. so he could get treatment. She felt badly enough about it to testify, and was also promoted for saving the company money. Just because it sounds outrageous and dishonest does not mean that people won't do it. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Business/Health/story?id=7911195&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/Health/story?id=7911195&page...
R0b0t1 5y ago
In a sense prices are this high because someone keeps paying. If the money dries up maybe the issue will resolve itself. Maybe a stretch, but possible.
musicale 5y ago
> This industry is disgusting But it's very profitable. Physician salaries have certainly outpaced inflation over the past 50 years (in most specialties - pediatrics and internal medicine seem to have dropped slightly) and the profit share of insurance companies has drastically increased over the last 20 years. After Obamacare, health insurer profitability has actually improved, and health insurance stocks have outperformed the S&P 500 by more than 100%. If you want a cut, you should really buy some stock.

TX0098812 5y ago

And that's putting it politely.

dahdum 5y ago

> Politicians need to step in and make this illegal. That would only make the situation even worse, hospitals would raise their absurd gouging rates even higher if government required it. Reform is needed but on both sides of that table.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
Break up the insurers (or nationalise the medical care funding system), break up (or nationalise) the hospitals.

jvanderbot 5y ago

When is the last time you went to an ER? We went recently in southern california, and it was saturated by people stopping in for sniffles, flu, and other things that should have been handled in a regular doctor visit. The nurse said as much when we asked if we should go somewhere else for (what turned out to be) an actual emergency. We got right in, thanks to triage. Is this related to the article? Probably not. But I never get enough chances to point out the myriad abuses and misuses of the health care system.

ceejayoz 5y ago
> We went recently in southern california, and it was saturated by people stopping in for sniffles, flu, and other things that should have been handled in a regular doctor visit. This is likely due to an inability to access "regular doctor" care. Either for lack of insurance (which they can't afford), or a giant deductible (which they also can't afford). The doctor's office can turn them away for an unpaid bill; the ER cannot.
musicale 5y ago
As I understand it, it's not primarily an abuse of the system by greedy and wicked freeloaders, but a very predictable result of the lack of safety net coverage in the US. Specifically, people without insurance end up at the ER because the ER can't legally turn them away for not having insurance or not being able to pay. Another predictable consequence is patient dumping, where patients who cannot pay at one hospital are sent to the ER at another.
toss1 5y ago
And I've been to plenty of ER visits in many parts of the country and seen nothing like this (although there have been waits), and seen effective triage, including a patient I was with walking in (looking fine) and being admitted in like three minutes flat based on an initial cardiac test. And you got treated quickly also. Perhaps you are in a local minima of bad conditions. Even if what you saw is widespread, it is still no excuse for this kind of stupid response from insurers. It is not even close to justified.
maxerickson 5y ago
At my local hospital, the ER and walk-in clinic have doors next to each other. The idea that the ER can't triage non-emergency care is some sort of bureaucratic construction designed to facilitate making money.

toss1 5y ago

Yup, these are the same people who run software to scan for plausible errors in past insurance applications, focusing on people who get the most expensive diseases, then use those errors (e.g., a misstatement or omission of a completely minor and unrelated condition or treatment), as a pretext to now deny coverage. So, not the patient, who has played by the rules their entire life, and properly paid into the system, is now literally fighting for their life, probably without a job, and is now denied the healthcare that they had paid for their entire life. And when a case manager denies their claim and saves the company $500K, they get promoted for killing the patient. This is not rumor. This is sworn testimony before congress. "Fuck these people" indeed!! (except they may no longer qualify as people)

fouric 5y ago
> sworn testimony before congress Citation please?
- toss1 5y ago
  Just Google "health insurance recision congressional testimony". There were many, many hours of testimony about the dishonest practice. It was systemic in the industry before it was banned by the ACA/Obamacare. This is one of the most important features of the ACA. I've posted below only one of the first appearing links to articles on the testimony of industry insiders [1]. I don't have handy the link to the video I found most memorable. It was a woman who worked at a large insurer, who rescinded the insurance of a man with an expensive disease, who'd never missed a payment, and who died fighting to get the insurer to pay. so he could get treatment. She felt badly enough about it to testify, and was also promoted for saving the company money. Just because it sounds outrageous and dishonest does not mean that people won't do it. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Business/Health/story?id=7911195&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/Health/story?id=7911195&page...

R0b0t1 5y ago

In a sense prices are this high because someone keeps paying. If the money dries up maybe the issue will resolve itself. Maybe a stretch, but possible.

musicale 5y ago

> This industry is disgusting But it's very profitable. Physician salaries have certainly outpaced inflation over the past 50 years (in most specialties - pediatrics and internal medicine seem to have dropped slightly) and the profit share of insurance companies has drastically increased over the last 20 years. After Obamacare, health insurer profitability has actually improved, and health insurance stocks have outperformed the S&P 500 by more than 100%. If you want a cut, you should really buy some stock.