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As an IC, I fully support extroverts going back to the office. I just want introverts like myself to have the option to never go back to the office. I don't und

As an IC, I fully support extroverts going back to the office. I just want introverts like myself to have the option to never go back to the office. I don't understand why people think it's either one or the other

CoastalCoder 5y ago
As an introvert myself, I think I totally get your take on this. But I've also been the only remote member of an otherwise in-person team. It was a truly terrible experience (as many others have written). I fear that the policy you're suggesting would make everything better for those in the office (the extroverts) and worse for those working remotely (the introverts).
- bpye 5y ago
  I have been in that position before, and with certain groups it has been difficult. My, perhaps optimistic, hope is that post-COVID even those that return to the office will be more understanding for the challenges of those that are remote, it is an experience we have all lived now.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  Frankly there's not much I dislike more than having to be in the office. I'd take the risk any day of the week.
stank345 5y ago
FWIW I'm definitely an introvert and I can't wait to get back in the office. I don't want to have to talk to people all day but I really want some actual meatspace interaction. Being locked up for a year with two small children and only my wife as the other adult to talk to has not been good for my mental health.
- bpye 5y ago
  Is this perhaps a COVID specific issue? Even during COVID I've kept in touch with a group of friends, albeit smaller. I still have the chance to go get a coffee or head to the gym, but I get to decide what those interactions are now.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  Maybe there are different types of introverts. The pandemic has been by far and away the best time in my adult life, even when I only spent time at home with my partner. As long as I can spend time with her I'm happy never seeing another human.
TameAntelope 5y ago
You're advocating for a position as "a guy in a room" [0], and we've all been taught how dangerous and harmful that person ends up being for an organization that's trying to ship good software on time. What you're asking for is, frankly, not reasonable. You want to be left alone to code, and that is simply not how software development works anymore (and arguably it never worked that way). [0] - https://blog.codinghorror.com/dont-go-dark/
- cnidaria 5y ago
  > You're advocating for a position as "a guy in a room" No they aren't. They just said they want to WFH.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    I think some additional context is probably necessary to understand my response: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27465169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27465169
- slavapestov 5y ago
  Nonsense. When I'm coding I want to be left alone to code. Often I need to talk to people as well, and I can do this very effectively over Slack, video meetings and screen sharing. I work on a team that was mostly in-office before COVID but I was one of a handful of remote people. Everyone was able to collaborate effectively when needed. Prior to that I've also been in the opposite situation where I worked in the office with teammates who were remote. It's really not that hard.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    There's a vast pool of people to hire that don't need this special treatment, and can produce quality code on time as well. How are you going to compete with them?
    - slavapestov 5y ago
thrower123 5y ago
Because it is one or the other. If office-first people are allowed to regain preeminence in a company, then that company will be back to abusing engineers by sitting them in hot-desk open office situations next to shouting salespeople in short order.
busterarm 5y ago
As an IC and an extrovert, I also never want to return to the office. I crushed a ton of hard work this year that I would have been incredibly distracted from by in-office activities otherwise.
pacifika 5y ago
Because you’ll miss out on in person discussions, not be in sync as a result, then leave because of communication issues. Mixed working is the hardest to get right I think
- silicon2401 5y ago
  This already happens in-person and is another example of why most of the problems people point out about working remotely are just problems with poor communication or workflow at a company. Working remotely isn't inherently more or less effective.

CoastalCoder 5y ago

As an introvert myself, I think I totally get your take on this. But I've also been the only remote member of an otherwise in-person team. It was a truly terrible experience (as many others have written). I fear that the policy you're suggesting would make everything better for those in the office (the extroverts) and worse for those working remotely (the introverts).

bpye 5y ago
I have been in that position before, and with certain groups it has been difficult. My, perhaps optimistic, hope is that post-COVID even those that return to the office will be more understanding for the challenges of those that are remote, it is an experience we have all lived now.
silicon2401 5y ago
Frankly there's not much I dislike more than having to be in the office. I'd take the risk any day of the week.

stank345 5y ago

FWIW I'm definitely an introvert and I can't wait to get back in the office. I don't want to have to talk to people all day but I really want some actual meatspace interaction. Being locked up for a year with two small children and only my wife as the other adult to talk to has not been good for my mental health.

bpye 5y ago
Is this perhaps a COVID specific issue? Even during COVID I've kept in touch with a group of friends, albeit smaller. I still have the chance to go get a coffee or head to the gym, but I get to decide what those interactions are now.
silicon2401 5y ago
Maybe there are different types of introverts. The pandemic has been by far and away the best time in my adult life, even when I only spent time at home with my partner. As long as I can spend time with her I'm happy never seeing another human.

TameAntelope 5y ago

You're advocating for a position as "a guy in a room" [0], and we've all been taught how dangerous and harmful that person ends up being for an organization that's trying to ship good software on time. What you're asking for is, frankly, not reasonable. You want to be left alone to code, and that is simply not how software development works anymore (and arguably it never worked that way). [0] - https://blog.codinghorror.com/dont-go-dark/

cnidaria 5y ago
> You're advocating for a position as "a guy in a room" No they aren't. They just said they want to WFH.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  I think some additional context is probably necessary to understand my response: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27465169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27465169
slavapestov 5y ago
Nonsense. When I'm coding I want to be left alone to code. Often I need to talk to people as well, and I can do this very effectively over Slack, video meetings and screen sharing. I work on a team that was mostly in-office before COVID but I was one of a handful of remote people. Everyone was able to collaborate effectively when needed. Prior to that I've also been in the opposite situation where I worked in the office with teammates who were remote. It's really not that hard.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  There's a vast pool of people to hire that don't need this special treatment, and can produce quality code on time as well. How are you going to compete with them?
  - slavapestov 5y ago

thrower123 5y ago

Because it is one or the other. If office-first people are allowed to regain preeminence in a company, then that company will be back to abusing engineers by sitting them in hot-desk open office situations next to shouting salespeople in short order.

busterarm 5y ago

As an IC and an extrovert, I also never want to return to the office. I crushed a ton of hard work this year that I would have been incredibly distracted from by in-office activities otherwise.

pacifika 5y ago

Because you’ll miss out on in person discussions, not be in sync as a result, then leave because of communication issues. Mixed working is the hardest to get right I think

silicon2401 5y ago
This already happens in-person and is another example of why most of the problems people point out about working remotely are just problems with poor communication or workflow at a company. Working remotely isn't inherently more or less effective.