3 ms·

> What information would that give? Which breeds are more likely to attack mail carriers.

willis936 5y ago
It would be a single correlation. If the assumption is then made that there is a causation and that is used to inform policy, then there are unequal prejudices informing public opinion and policy. Pseudoscience masquerading as science. Something bad masquerading as something good. You do it for dogs because you're not a dog, no big deal. Maybe you'd do it for people with a different skin color because you are not their skin color. It has happened continuously in the past 100 years and continues to happen.
- antisthenes 5y ago
  > Pseudoscience masquerading as science. Something bad masquerading as something good. If a certain breed of dog is responsible for more attacks than any other breed, then breed-specific legislation is not pseudoscience.
  - willis936 5y ago
    Yes it is. This is the very crux of the issue. Simply showing a correlation is not demonstrating that behavior is linked to breed. Show a single study that even attempts to prove dog nature is linked to breed. You'll find that actual science finds the opposite.
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago
      Sheep dogs like to herd. Retrievers like to retrieve. Covering your ears and saying lalalala doesn't allow you to claim correlations are immune to causality.
      - willis936 5y ago
        What makes you say sheep dogs like to herd? Because that is what they do? If you trained a retriever to herd sheep and a sheep dog to retrieve, would the dogs not do those things? What would the dogs do if they were never socialized? Are you even considering these questions, or are you covering your ears and accepting the not-science dogma you've heard your entire life?
        antisthenes 5y ago
        > What would the dogs do if they were never socialized? Funny you should ask. I own a herding breed right now. 1. Socialization has really no impact on what a dog is bred to do or what it has an aptitude to do. Socialization mainly teaches dogs how to read "dog cues" and how to fit into the dog world. That is - to understand when another dog does or does not want to play, who the dominant one is, what the polite greetings are, etc. 2. My breed does certain things that are unique to the breed, and exhibits behaviors unique to the breed. She was not trained to do so. She lays prone on the outskirts of the field, anticipating a command from a human to move the stock in a given direction. She does this, despite never seeing a sheep/cow in her existence, nor being trained for herding in any way. Whenever I see dogs of this breed at a dog park, they exhibit the exact same behaviors, down to the posture and eye focus. The more I read your comments in this thread, the more I realize how little you actually know about dogs, nor did you actually read my comment before labeling it pseudoscience. Partly, what I meant was that the causation is also irrelevant - if 1 breed is responsible for most attacks, and there is legislation against it that solves the issue - that doesn't mean anyone has been discriminated against. It just means there's going to be less attacks in the future.
        padastra 5y ago
        Have you ever, in your life, considered that you may sometimes be wrong?
        spywaregorilla 5y ago
        > What makes you say sheep dogs like to herd? Because they do. That's what they were bred for. This has nothing to do with human race analogies. Dog breeds influence behavioral traits heavily. I'm not convinced you know anything about dogs.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  > Pseudoscience masquerading as science. Something bad masquerading as something good. So if a rigorous scientific study concluded that pit bulls are more likely to attack mail men than golden retrievers, normalized to the same starting conditions, is it ok to make discriminatory policies against them?

It would be a single correlation. If the assumption is then made that there is a causation and that is used to inform policy, then there are unequal prejudices informing public opinion and policy. Pseudoscience masquerading as science. Something bad masquerading as something good. You do it for dogs because you're not a dog, no big deal. Maybe you'd do it for people with a different skin color because you are not their skin color. It has happened continuously in the past 100 years and continues to happen.

antisthenes 5y ago
> Pseudoscience masquerading as science. Something bad masquerading as something good. If a certain breed of dog is responsible for more attacks than any other breed, then breed-specific legislation is not pseudoscience.
- willis936 5y ago
  Yes it is. This is the very crux of the issue. Simply showing a correlation is not demonstrating that behavior is linked to breed. Show a single study that even attempts to prove dog nature is linked to breed. You'll find that actual science finds the opposite.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    Sheep dogs like to herd. Retrievers like to retrieve. Covering your ears and saying lalalala doesn't allow you to claim correlations are immune to causality.
    - willis936 5y ago
      What makes you say sheep dogs like to herd? Because that is what they do? If you trained a retriever to herd sheep and a sheep dog to retrieve, would the dogs not do those things? What would the dogs do if they were never socialized? Are you even considering these questions, or are you covering your ears and accepting the not-science dogma you've heard your entire life?
      - antisthenes 5y ago
        > What would the dogs do if they were never socialized? Funny you should ask. I own a herding breed right now. 1. Socialization has really no impact on what a dog is bred to do or what it has an aptitude to do. Socialization mainly teaches dogs how to read "dog cues" and how to fit into the dog world. That is - to understand when another dog does or does not want to play, who the dominant one is, what the polite greetings are, etc. 2. My breed does certain things that are unique to the breed, and exhibits behaviors unique to the breed. She was not trained to do so. She lays prone on the outskirts of the field, anticipating a command from a human to move the stock in a given direction. She does this, despite never seeing a sheep/cow in her existence, nor being trained for herding in any way. Whenever I see dogs of this breed at a dog park, they exhibit the exact same behaviors, down to the posture and eye focus. The more I read your comments in this thread, the more I realize how little you actually know about dogs, nor did you actually read my comment before labeling it pseudoscience. Partly, what I meant was that the causation is also irrelevant - if 1 breed is responsible for most attacks, and there is legislation against it that solves the issue - that doesn't mean anyone has been discriminated against. It just means there's going to be less attacks in the future.
      - padastra 5y ago
        Have you ever, in your life, considered that you may sometimes be wrong?
      - spywaregorilla 5y ago
        > What makes you say sheep dogs like to herd? Because they do. That's what they were bred for. This has nothing to do with human race analogies. Dog breeds influence behavioral traits heavily. I'm not convinced you know anything about dogs.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
> Pseudoscience masquerading as science. Something bad masquerading as something good. So if a rigorous scientific study concluded that pit bulls are more likely to attack mail men than golden retrievers, normalized to the same starting conditions, is it ok to make discriminatory policies against them?