4 ms·

Given that my first proper programming job is going to be remote, I feel like I'll not only be less productive since I can get distracted but also unable to rea

by mhh__ 5y ago

Given that my first proper programming job is going to be remote, I feel like I'll not only be less productive since I can get distracted but also unable to really meet the clever and interesting people that I'll be working with (I.e. a Jitsi call is not a proper conversation in my books at least). As far as problems go it's a fairly "first world" one (as the saying goes), but it is something I think about.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GiorgioG 5y ago
My first programming job was remote (the company had a tiny office at the time) - this was almost 20 years ago to this day. Distractions weren't a problem for me, the main issue was fear of asking questions (i.e. spinning my wheels because I was afraid to appear dumb.) Once I got over it, started asking questions on Lotus Sametime (chat system) - things got better. My only advice to you is...don't spend too long spinning your wheels!
- maxrev17 5y ago
  Wheel spinning is good advice! Working alone allows for concentration, not distraction. It also sometimes forces you to reach for resources which are close to figure stuff out. Reading is an old friend!
cptskippy 5y ago
> I feel like I'll not only be less productive since I can get distracted but also unable to really meet the clever and interesting people that I'll be working with ... Honestly it's what you make of it. One of the teams I work on presently consists entirely of remote staff now. I originally worked in the office but no one else did, now we're all remote. The team is by far one of the better ones in our org and everyone gets along really well. It took me a while to warm up to everyone but some of the newer members eagerly engaged the group and have embedded themselves much more quickly.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  I don't doubt I can be creative and write good code - I'm a good programmer, and I'm working on something that I'm interested in (I'll programming language implementation to keep it short), it's more of a thing where I like the idea of bouncing ideas off people and kind of maintaining a good separation of ideas - both things I'm not very good at when I'm basically alone at the desk. The point about networking is quite cynical but I'm working in a fairly nepotistic sector (but well-compensated) so a few connections can go a very long way.
onli 5y ago
A Jitsi call is totally a proper conversation. You learn by working with developers more capable than you, by getting advice, and most of all by planning feature and solving bugs. None of this needs an office. The "not getting distracted" thing can be a problem though. It's not for me, simply follow work hours. It's also less an issue I feel when you work closely with another (remote) developer. There will be PRs to review and PRs to deliver, that should motivate you easily. But for the record, you can also get distracted in an office - maybe more easily even.
gota 5y ago
Your comment hints at something I think will be a major factor in tipping the scale for all-remote or all-onsite: office culture I know a lot of people twist their noses at the mention of an office culture (it does appear most when it is negative), but the value of positive-culture cannot be underestimated. Teams that bond well work best. Can people bond over video calls? These are going to be interesting times.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  I can definitely bond I just need cues that the call doesn't give me
jbjbjbjb 5y ago
I think if you’re lucky to work with smart people just being in the environment can be fulfilling and enjoyable for the atmosphere even if you’re not directly learning anything. But for actual learning I don’t think the office environment adds much. Pair programming is useful but today’s remote tools are way better than crowding around a desk.
silicon2401 5y ago
Your fear assumes that working in an office is going to be the opposite of those things: more productive, less distracted, better socializing. At my first job, all of those were true. My coworkers were rude and unfriendly; I personally find any noise from other people distracting; and I focus better at home because I can take breaks as needed (like lie in bed for a few seconds if my back hurts).
FearlessNebula 5y ago
This is a logical fallacy. Studies show that there are fewer distractions at home. Also, anecdotally, my team lead and tech lead see no discernible difference in their ability to help teammates, and our interns are just as productive and participate in just as many help sessions.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Well if studies show that his home work environment is less distracting than his office, i guess he can't argue with that.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
I suspect communication happens better at the office. Not necessarily formal communication - you can do that with a video call or an email - but the other stuff. That snippet of conversation you heard over a cubicle wall or in the break room, that told you about an infrastructure change that your code needed to handle? You're not going to hear that at home. That co-worker who saw you in the bathroom and asked how it was going, and you whined about the bug you were trying to find, and they gave you a suggestion that saved you two days? That's not going to happen at home.
- dmitrygr 5y ago
  I am tired of hearing about "snippet of conversation you heard over a cubicle wall" nonsense! NO! We all wear noise cancelling headphones to avoid that so we can ... work, so this is 100% total bullshit.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    I'm getting the opposite from my co-worker who spent a year out of the office, complaining about how out of the loop he was. And he's a manager. Oh, yeah. He was complaining about the noise, pre-Covid. So your last paragraph seems to be a bit overstated. It may be true for you, but you state it like it's true for everybody, and it's not.

by mhh__ 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GiorgioG 5y ago

My first programming job was remote (the company had a tiny office at the time) - this was almost 20 years ago to this day. Distractions weren't a problem for me, the main issue was fear of asking questions (i.e. spinning my wheels because I was afraid to appear dumb.) Once I got over it, started asking questions on Lotus Sametime (chat system) - things got better. My only advice to you is...don't spend too long spinning your wheels!

maxrev17 5y ago
Wheel spinning is good advice! Working alone allows for concentration, not distraction. It also sometimes forces you to reach for resources which are close to figure stuff out. Reading is an old friend!

cptskippy 5y ago

> I feel like I'll not only be less productive since I can get distracted but also unable to really meet the clever and interesting people that I'll be working with ... Honestly it's what you make of it. One of the teams I work on presently consists entirely of remote staff now. I originally worked in the office but no one else did, now we're all remote. The team is by far one of the better ones in our org and everyone gets along really well. It took me a while to warm up to everyone but some of the newer members eagerly engaged the group and have embedded themselves much more quickly.

mhh__ 5y ago
I don't doubt I can be creative and write good code - I'm a good programmer, and I'm working on something that I'm interested in (I'll programming language implementation to keep it short), it's more of a thing where I like the idea of bouncing ideas off people and kind of maintaining a good separation of ideas - both things I'm not very good at when I'm basically alone at the desk. The point about networking is quite cynical but I'm working in a fairly nepotistic sector (but well-compensated) so a few connections can go a very long way.

onli 5y ago

A Jitsi call is totally a proper conversation. You learn by working with developers more capable than you, by getting advice, and most of all by planning feature and solving bugs. None of this needs an office. The "not getting distracted" thing can be a problem though. It's not for me, simply follow work hours. It's also less an issue I feel when you work closely with another (remote) developer. There will be PRs to review and PRs to deliver, that should motivate you easily. But for the record, you can also get distracted in an office - maybe more easily even.

gota 5y ago

Your comment hints at something I think will be a major factor in tipping the scale for all-remote or all-onsite: office culture I know a lot of people twist their noses at the mention of an office culture (it does appear most when it is negative), but the value of positive-culture cannot be underestimated. Teams that bond well work best. Can people bond over video calls? These are going to be interesting times.

mhh__ 5y ago
I can definitely bond I just need cues that the call doesn't give me

jbjbjbjb 5y ago

I think if you’re lucky to work with smart people just being in the environment can be fulfilling and enjoyable for the atmosphere even if you’re not directly learning anything. But for actual learning I don’t think the office environment adds much. Pair programming is useful but today’s remote tools are way better than crowding around a desk.

silicon2401 5y ago

Your fear assumes that working in an office is going to be the opposite of those things: more productive, less distracted, better socializing. At my first job, all of those were true. My coworkers were rude and unfriendly; I personally find any noise from other people distracting; and I focus better at home because I can take breaks as needed (like lie in bed for a few seconds if my back hurts).

FearlessNebula 5y ago

This is a logical fallacy. Studies show that there are fewer distractions at home. Also, anecdotally, my team lead and tech lead see no discernible difference in their ability to help teammates, and our interns are just as productive and participate in just as many help sessions.

jjeaff 5y ago
Well if studies show that his home work environment is less distracting than his office, i guess he can't argue with that.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

I suspect communication happens better at the office. Not necessarily formal communication - you can do that with a video call or an email - but the other stuff. That snippet of conversation you heard over a cubicle wall or in the break room, that told you about an infrastructure change that your code needed to handle? You're not going to hear that at home. That co-worker who saw you in the bathroom and asked how it was going, and you whined about the bug you were trying to find, and they gave you a suggestion that saved you two days? That's not going to happen at home.

dmitrygr 5y ago
I am tired of hearing about "snippet of conversation you heard over a cubicle wall" nonsense! NO! We all wear noise cancelling headphones to avoid that so we can ... work, so this is 100% total bullshit.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I'm getting the opposite from my co-worker who spent a year out of the office, complaining about how out of the loop he was. And he's a manager. Oh, yeah. He was complaining about the noise, pre-Covid. So your last paragraph seems to be a bit overstated. It may be true for you, but you state it like it's true for everybody, and it's not.