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The human heart has a lot of ACE2 receptors, which is what Covid binds to. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7239191/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p

The human heart has a lot of ACE2 receptors, which is what Covid binds to. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7239191/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7239191/ I wonder if you can get myocarditits both from exposure and the vaccine. Covid is in your heart tissue, triggering an immune response. When you get the vaccine, your immune system is going to ramp up even further to deal with this Covid in your heart. This would only affect people who had prior Covid exposure it would seem.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Wonder if this will lead to an increase in pericarditis over the next couple of years. I had pericarditis when I was a teen. The explanation from the cardiologist, which probably was dumbed down for me, was that sometimes a foreign body like bacteria or a virus gets hidden in the lining of the heart and when it later gets exposed to the immune system, it causes the pericardium to get enflamed, which squeezes the heart. How long do spike proteins (SARS-CoV-2 or vaccine created) hang out if they make it to the heart? We probably don't know yet.
- EMM_386 5y ago
  > How long do spike proteins (SARS-CoV-2 or vaccine created) hang out if they make it to the heart? As far as I understand it, the vaccine doesn't work like this. It tells your immune system "hey this is what a SARS-CoV-2 spike protein looks like, attack it if you see it". So the vaccine wouldn't cause the heart damage, the vaccine does (intentionally) ramp up your immune system to learn about this new threat, which it will then attack. It doesn't bind to ACE2, it teaches your immune system to look for bad things that can. If there is still Covid in your heart due to prior exposure, your immune system is going to go there to assist. This would cause inflammation, but intentionally. As you noted, this immune system response is correct behavior. So that's a long way of saying the inflammation is from the virus, not the vaccine. That's why I was thinking this may only occur in vaccinated individuals who had prior exposure to Covid.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    The covid spike protein binds ace2 so the immune response to bind the spike could bind ace2 as well. Normally this is mitigated by a self selection filter but it is not out of the question that you could develop an autoimmune response.
    - cma 5y ago
      The spike protien binds to ace2 receptors, so the immune response may be more likely to bind to ACE2, which also binds to ace2 receptors, but that isn't a given because the part on the spile the immune response targets don't have to themselves match with parts of ACE2.
    - nielsbot 5y ago
      Would it? My naive guess is that the immune response is an anti-ACE2 match. So it would bind to COVID spike protein, not the ACE2 receptor.
  - loa_in_ 5y ago
    There are two variants of the vaccine: One is mRNA (?) variant that gets into your cells and makes them produce just the spike protein. This lets your immune system find this protein out and make antibodies. The other contains instead a partially destroyed viruses which trains the immune system directly on all their parts - the shell, the spikes, etc. I don't remember which company makes which kind but both are in production.
    - abracadaniel 5y ago
      The mRNA vaccines don't produce the entire spike protein, just a portion of it in order to target the antibodies towards that specific portion of the spike.
      - nielsbot 5y ago
        How much of the spike protein is coded for?
drcross 5y ago
>which is what Covid binds to. You mean the SARS-2 spike protein binds to the ACE receptors. mRNA vaccines create the spike protein so it's going to work in exactly the same way as natural infection. Recent research from Japan is showing that the spike protein from vaccination is not staying at the injection site it can get into the blood stream (and causes blood clots as are widely reported), crossing the blood brain barrier and affecting the heart. As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. I've done enough research to know what I'm talking about and the smartest people I know have reached the same conclusion.
- munificent 5y ago
  > As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. Unfortunate that you're also unilaterally forcing everyone you come into contact with to take that same risk if you are infected without realizing it.
  - trhway 5y ago
    > everyone you come into contact with to take that same risk how come so if those "everyone" got vaccinated? I mean all the risk groups who has clearly higher risk from covid than vaccine should definitely go for vaccine. The rest - personal choice of risk. And as a healthy 49 years old, i'm taking my chance with covid and have no plans for vaccination (i was always laughing at anti-vaxxers, yet seeing all misinformation and propaganda (the stench of USSR strength propaganda is just overwhelming) around covid i think i'll pass this one)
    - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
      Then you're an asshole, because you make yourself a petri dish for virus mutation that could produce a much deadlier variant and cost us all dearly... again.
    - nrb 5y ago
      "everyone" currently excludes a large number of people who would otherwise like to be immunized for a variety of reasons (age, medical risks), and vaccines are not 100% effective

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Wonder if this will lead to an increase in pericarditis over the next couple of years. I had pericarditis when I was a teen. The explanation from the cardiologist, which probably was dumbed down for me, was that sometimes a foreign body like bacteria or a virus gets hidden in the lining of the heart and when it later gets exposed to the immune system, it causes the pericardium to get enflamed, which squeezes the heart. How long do spike proteins (SARS-CoV-2 or vaccine created) hang out if they make it to the heart? We probably don't know yet.

EMM_386 5y ago
> How long do spike proteins (SARS-CoV-2 or vaccine created) hang out if they make it to the heart? As far as I understand it, the vaccine doesn't work like this. It tells your immune system "hey this is what a SARS-CoV-2 spike protein looks like, attack it if you see it". So the vaccine wouldn't cause the heart damage, the vaccine does (intentionally) ramp up your immune system to learn about this new threat, which it will then attack. It doesn't bind to ACE2, it teaches your immune system to look for bad things that can. If there is still Covid in your heart due to prior exposure, your immune system is going to go there to assist. This would cause inflammation, but intentionally. As you noted, this immune system response is correct behavior. So that's a long way of saying the inflammation is from the virus, not the vaccine. That's why I was thinking this may only occur in vaccinated individuals who had prior exposure to Covid.
- sjg007 5y ago
  The covid spike protein binds ace2 so the immune response to bind the spike could bind ace2 as well. Normally this is mitigated by a self selection filter but it is not out of the question that you could develop an autoimmune response.
  - cma 5y ago
    The spike protien binds to ace2 receptors, so the immune response may be more likely to bind to ACE2, which also binds to ace2 receptors, but that isn't a given because the part on the spile the immune response targets don't have to themselves match with parts of ACE2.
  - nielsbot 5y ago
    Would it? My naive guess is that the immune response is an anti-ACE2 match. So it would bind to COVID spike protein, not the ACE2 receptor.
- loa_in_ 5y ago
  There are two variants of the vaccine: One is mRNA (?) variant that gets into your cells and makes them produce just the spike protein. This lets your immune system find this protein out and make antibodies. The other contains instead a partially destroyed viruses which trains the immune system directly on all their parts - the shell, the spikes, etc. I don't remember which company makes which kind but both are in production.
  - abracadaniel 5y ago
    The mRNA vaccines don't produce the entire spike protein, just a portion of it in order to target the antibodies towards that specific portion of the spike.
    - nielsbot 5y ago
      How much of the spike protein is coded for?

drcross 5y ago

>which is what Covid binds to. You mean the SARS-2 spike protein binds to the ACE receptors. mRNA vaccines create the spike protein so it's going to work in exactly the same way as natural infection. Recent research from Japan is showing that the spike protein from vaccination is not staying at the injection site it can get into the blood stream (and causes blood clots as are widely reported), crossing the blood brain barrier and affecting the heart. As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. I've done enough research to know what I'm talking about and the smartest people I know have reached the same conclusion.

munificent 5y ago
> As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. Unfortunate that you're also unilaterally forcing everyone you come into contact with to take that same risk if you are infected without realizing it.
- trhway 5y ago
  > everyone you come into contact with to take that same risk how come so if those "everyone" got vaccinated? I mean all the risk groups who has clearly higher risk from covid than vaccine should definitely go for vaccine. The rest - personal choice of risk. And as a healthy 49 years old, i'm taking my chance with covid and have no plans for vaccination (i was always laughing at anti-vaxxers, yet seeing all misinformation and propaganda (the stench of USSR strength propaganda is just overwhelming) around covid i think i'll pass this one)
  - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
    Then you're an asshole, because you make yourself a petri dish for virus mutation that could produce a much deadlier variant and cost us all dearly... again.
  - nrb 5y ago
    "everyone" currently excludes a large number of people who would otherwise like to be immunized for a variety of reasons (age, medical risks), and vaccines are not 100% effective