4 ms·

Modern cars have more design features that improve crash survivability (better airbags, better crumple zones, tested with more realistic crash tests, etc). Thos

Modern cars have more design features that improve crash survivability (better airbags, better crumple zones, tested with more realistic crash tests, etc). Those seem like a pretty unalloyed improvement to me. I'm not saying you're wrong about the things you mentioned, but cars really have got safer, in important ways.

clairity 5y ago
yes, airbags and crumple zones do improve safety, but even those are not without negative consequences, like bigger, heavier vehicles (which is more dangerous to others) and higher sense of psychological safety leading to being less considerate, less attentive, and more reckless. that's not to argue that those tradeoffs aren't net positive, but that they're still tradeoffs to be considered, rather than short-circuiting to "of course it's better!".
- notJim 5y ago
  Do you have any evidence for these claims? This just feels like luddism to me.
  - pille 5y ago
    The "bigger, heavier" part does indeed seem to be a tradeoff. It's been blamed for a significanted rise in pedestrian fatalities, even as vehicles get safer for the people inside. One source, just after a quick search: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians20 https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians20
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  I'd argue feeling safe when I drive is net positive for actual safety. Stressed drivers going to make way more errors.
  - clairity 5y ago
    if you’re prone to being overwhelmed by stress while driving a machine that can potentially kill you, that’s a sign to get more training, not to mollify oneself with an illusion of safety. ignorance is not bliss in this case.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      if you’re prone to stress while driving a machine that can potentially kill you, that’s a sign you are aware of your predicament
      - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        Have you ever seen how stressed out drivers behave? We've all seen that person in a Honda fit who's so terrified of being on the freeway during rush hour they're driving like an overloaded scrap hauler and generally causing a problem in whatever lane they're in. That doesn't make the roads safer.
        dzhiurgis 5y ago
        Exactly this. I cannot sum this up better. In NZ the police fine such people occasionally, I think there was a case when one such driver caused massive traffic jam during national holiday.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Unless you crash into something going highway speed a car from 1990 or 1980 is fine as long as you're wearing a seatbelt. The states look good because safety tech that only matters at the extreme end has improved so the drunks and distracted teenager who would have dies had they gone off a cliff in a 20-30yo car are now surviving. Basically the medium to low speed impacts that people not behaving particularly poorly get into have always been highly survivable.
- argonaut 5y ago
  This is too dismissive of the many ways people get into accidents. I got t-boned by someone who blew past a stop sign on a residential road. Side curtain airbags prevented me from hitting my head on my side window.

clairity 5y ago

yes, airbags and crumple zones do improve safety, but even those are not without negative consequences, like bigger, heavier vehicles (which is more dangerous to others) and higher sense of psychological safety leading to being less considerate, less attentive, and more reckless. that's not to argue that those tradeoffs aren't net positive, but that they're still tradeoffs to be considered, rather than short-circuiting to "of course it's better!".

notJim 5y ago
Do you have any evidence for these claims? This just feels like luddism to me.
- pille 5y ago
  The "bigger, heavier" part does indeed seem to be a tradeoff. It's been blamed for a significanted rise in pedestrian fatalities, even as vehicles get safer for the people inside. One source, just after a quick search: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians20 https://www.ghsa.org/resources/Pedestrians20
dzhiurgis 5y ago
I'd argue feeling safe when I drive is net positive for actual safety. Stressed drivers going to make way more errors.
- clairity 5y ago
  if you’re prone to being overwhelmed by stress while driving a machine that can potentially kill you, that’s a sign to get more training, not to mollify oneself with an illusion of safety. ignorance is not bliss in this case.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    if you’re prone to stress while driving a machine that can potentially kill you, that’s a sign you are aware of your predicament
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      Have you ever seen how stressed out drivers behave? We've all seen that person in a Honda fit who's so terrified of being on the freeway during rush hour they're driving like an overloaded scrap hauler and generally causing a problem in whatever lane they're in. That doesn't make the roads safer.
      - dzhiurgis 5y ago
        Exactly this. I cannot sum this up better. In NZ the police fine such people occasionally, I think there was a case when one such driver caused massive traffic jam during national holiday.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

Unless you crash into something going highway speed a car from 1990 or 1980 is fine as long as you're wearing a seatbelt. The states look good because safety tech that only matters at the extreme end has improved so the drunks and distracted teenager who would have dies had they gone off a cliff in a 20-30yo car are now surviving. Basically the medium to low speed impacts that people not behaving particularly poorly get into have always been highly survivable.

argonaut 5y ago
This is too dismissive of the many ways people get into accidents. I got t-boned by someone who blew past a stop sign on a residential road. Side curtain airbags prevented me from hitting my head on my side window.