4 ms·

I had this after COVID in April last year right at the beginning. I suspect it is an immune reaction to the virus not the vaccine itself.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
But the Pfizer vaccine doesn't contain any of the virus, unless it's just the immune reaction to the spike protein that causes the problem?
- numpad0 5y ago
  Maybe having immune system working hard somehow naturally puts strain on cardiovascular systems?
  - derbOac 5y ago
    Along those lines, I am wondering how this compares to other non-SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.
  - jerf 5y ago
    A theory (far from proved, but certainly also nothing I'd consider "disproved") is that the spike protein itself may be dangerous, in which case injecting something into yourself that causes your body to deliberately produce it may not be an unmitigated good. I don't think we have the data either way to be sure the spike protein is completely harmless, though obviously how dangerous it is is bounded by the fact that many people experience no ill effects. (That is, it obviously can't be super-ultra-deadly, because it's not killing everyone instantly. How dangerous it could possibly be is bounded by the fact that many people have received the vaccine.)
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      Presumably the effect is also bounded by the fact that it can't reproduce.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Wouldn't that lead to heart inflammation with pretty much every sickness then? And given that the vaccine side effects are often less than a common cold, I don't know if that's particularly compelling.
  - triceratop 5y ago
    The logic here is astounding. You blame the immune system instead of the vaccine, because the population has been conditioned to believe vaccines, even if experimental, are without risk.
- lame-robot-hoax 5y ago
  https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/spike-protein-behavior https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/sp... Derek Lowe has a post that discusses this. In short from what I remember, the vaccine is administered in the deltoid, so most of the spike proteins should remain there. Some may travel throughout the body, but overall it is much much less than a natural infection. That’s why I’m curious to compare myocarditis rates after vaccination to those after infection, because from what we know, natural infection should result in a higher rate of myocarditis than vaccination.
  - michaelrubin 5y ago
    Did they ever confirm this experimentally, or it is just speculation about how it should work? It does seem like spike protein traveling further through the body than we thought it would would explain this.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > unless it's just the immune reaction to the spike protein that causes the problem? If the problem is inflammation then that seems entirely plausible... I thought that an immune response was exactly what inflammation is
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    But then it would be caused by untold number of things and not marked out as special.
- krrrh 5y ago
  The vaccine produces spike protein and some research suggests that the spike protein itself is the source of vascular system damage. There was a contention that the vaccine spike protein is designed to stay on the surface of infected cells and not freely circulate into the bloodstream in large quantities but we also just don’t know for certain. It could even have to do with how the vaccine is administered and whether it largely affects the lymph system or a large quantity makes its way into the bloodstream. https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/ https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spik...

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago

But the Pfizer vaccine doesn't contain any of the virus, unless it's just the immune reaction to the spike protein that causes the problem?

numpad0 5y ago
Maybe having immune system working hard somehow naturally puts strain on cardiovascular systems?
- derbOac 5y ago
  Along those lines, I am wondering how this compares to other non-SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.
- jerf 5y ago
  A theory (far from proved, but certainly also nothing I'd consider "disproved") is that the spike protein itself may be dangerous, in which case injecting something into yourself that causes your body to deliberately produce it may not be an unmitigated good. I don't think we have the data either way to be sure the spike protein is completely harmless, though obviously how dangerous it is is bounded by the fact that many people experience no ill effects. (That is, it obviously can't be super-ultra-deadly, because it's not killing everyone instantly. How dangerous it could possibly be is bounded by the fact that many people have received the vaccine.)
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Presumably the effect is also bounded by the fact that it can't reproduce.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Wouldn't that lead to heart inflammation with pretty much every sickness then? And given that the vaccine side effects are often less than a common cold, I don't know if that's particularly compelling.
- triceratop 5y ago
  The logic here is astounding. You blame the immune system instead of the vaccine, because the population has been conditioned to believe vaccines, even if experimental, are without risk.
lame-robot-hoax 5y ago
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/spike-protein-behavior https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/04/sp... Derek Lowe has a post that discusses this. In short from what I remember, the vaccine is administered in the deltoid, so most of the spike proteins should remain there. Some may travel throughout the body, but overall it is much much less than a natural infection. That’s why I’m curious to compare myocarditis rates after vaccination to those after infection, because from what we know, natural infection should result in a higher rate of myocarditis than vaccination.
- michaelrubin 5y ago
  Did they ever confirm this experimentally, or it is just speculation about how it should work? It does seem like spike protein traveling further through the body than we thought it would would explain this.
nicoburns 5y ago
> unless it's just the immune reaction to the spike protein that causes the problem? If the problem is inflammation then that seems entirely plausible... I thought that an immune response was exactly what inflammation is
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  But then it would be caused by untold number of things and not marked out as special.
krrrh 5y ago
The vaccine produces spike protein and some research suggests that the spike protein itself is the source of vascular system damage. There was a contention that the vaccine spike protein is designed to stay on the surface of infected cells and not freely circulate into the bloodstream in large quantities but we also just don’t know for certain. It could even have to do with how the vaccine is administered and whether it largely affects the lymph system or a large quantity makes its way into the bloodstream. https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/ https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spik...