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China has created a 'dystopian hellscape' in Xinjiang, Amnesty report says
- xtian 5y agoAmnesty International corroborated this congressional testimony which was used to justify the first Gulf War and later revealed to be a complete fabrication: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
- zepto 5y agoSo you think they are fabricating this?
- xtian 5y agoI don’t have any special insight, I’m just pointing out that Amnesty doesn’t have a sterling record in this regard. The story is definitely in the US’ favor geopolitically, though. Look up which countries have condemned China for human rights abuses in Xinjiang at the UN. I don’t think there are any Muslim-majority countries on that list. Compare it to the list of UN countries which have condemned the genocide of Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar.
- zepto 5y agoSeems like you are implying that the story is false because it benefits the US.
- xtian 5y agoI’m implying that maybe given the US’ history in the Middle East, its claims about the treatment of Muslims should be taken with one or more grains of salt.
- zepto 5y agoOk - so you do think they are lies.
- King-Aaron 5y agoEven a broken clock is right twice a day.
- sudosysgen 5y agoHow do you tell without another clock when it is right, though? I think the best solution to this is find independent reporting that has no relationship to any western countries, which I am sure will find some atrocities, and not touch the broken clock at all.
- bingbong70 5y agoCIA has a long history of funding terrorists and attempting regime change operations around the world, China included. People that know the pattern can see the bullshit coming from a mile away. Why the US all of a sudden loves the Uyghur terrorists that it was bombing with impunity not too long ago... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m7id66fk9hY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m7id66fk9hY
- zepto 5y agoThe US was bombing Uighurs? That seems like total bullshit to me.
- bingbong70 5y ago>U.S. targets Chinese Uighur militants as well as Taliban fighters in Afghanistan https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighur-militants-well-taliban-fighters-afghanistan-n845876 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighu... They were considered terrorists, then at some point during the Syrian regime change project, imported Uyghur fighters became useful allies to the US along with Al Nusra, Al Qaeda and ISIS. US is also currently rehabilitating an Al Qaeda militant's image to make him the 'Juan Guaido' of Syria... https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/abu-mohammad-al-jolani-interview-hayat-tahrir-al-sham-syria-al-qaeda/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/abu-mohammad-al-j...
- zepto 5y ago> in Afghanistan I think this is the relevant phrase, no?
- sudosysgen 5y agoHow is it relevant? They are Uyghurs, and this terrorist group does operate in China too. The fact that this year they stopped being terrorists according to the US does smell like bullshit. Certainly, the US didn't bomb them for their ethnicity. That doesn't make the statement factually incorrect, the flip-flopping there smells like bullshit and that's what GP was alluding to if we are reading the comment in good faith.
- davesque 5y agoSeems like apples and oranges. What does any country really have to lose by criticizing Myanmar? Not much. On the other hand, criticizing China comes at a cost because they're a powerful country. So countries are probably less willing to do it in general even if they're ideologically aligned with doing it.
- sudosysgen 5y agoThis is a good point. However, being allied with the US does not magically make the cost of criticizing China any lesser, and there are Western countries with a stronger reliance on the Chinese economy than many Muslim countries. So is the deciding factor really reliance, or is it rather US-alignment? Besides, there is quite a bit to gain by criticizing enemies of the US and excusing crimes from allies of the US, see for example Muslim countries recognizing Israel at the behest of the US state department, so why is it not the case here also? And the US too is a very powerful nation, even more powerful, yet many Muslim countries critiqued it. I think the truth here is a lot more complex. The contrast between the reporting by western and non-western sources here as well as the factual inaccuracies in reporting and willingness to exaggerate lead me to conclude that while not offending China is a big thing, another is that western reporting is likely exaggerated as happened before when geopolitics made it convenient.
- zepto 5y ago> while not offending China is a big thing, another is that western reporting is likely exaggerated Why? If anything it seems likely that most negative reporting on China has been downplayed for years and is now only catching up now that Western governments are less interested in appeasement.
- sudosysgen 5y agoWhat appeasement? Western governments were never interested in appeasing, only in profit. Now China is in the way. There are many countries were atrocities of similar scale are happening right now and that don't have much influence. That's the metric for a neutral amount of reporting, and China was over that since the 60s.
- chitowneats 5y agoWow, this account is indefatigable in these threads. It's really something to behold.
- deanCommie 5y agoI think it's interesting that your entire comment history is defending China, and the CPC: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xtian https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xtian And it's full of laughable statement that anyone living in a free democratic country can only shake their head at. Classic Soviet style propaganda that is TECHNICALLY TRUE while entirely missing the point: > Xi never declared himself president for life, the National People's Congress simply passed a law removing term limits. Angela Merkel has been chancellor of Germany for twice as long as Xi has been president of China.
- ilamont 5y ago"Let's not get up in arms about supposed Chinese internet commenters or Russian fake news." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27082353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27082353
- xtian 5y agoNot my entire history, just my history after I learned a little bit about China and realized how many people on this site consider themselves to be intelligent free thinkers but simply regurgitate the pre-packaged US line on anything geopolitical. My only aim is to dissent against the manufacturing of consent for another bloody US war. What’s yours?
- ilamont 5y agoArticle does not mention President-for-life Xi Jinping or his local Chinese Communist Party boss Chen Quanguo who carried out the mass detention and other abuses, against the advice of local officials. This 2019 NYT article, based on leaked documents, shows more details: President Xi Jinping, the party chief, laid the groundwork for the crackdown in a series of speeches delivered in private to officials during and after a visit to Xinjiang in April 2014, just weeks after Uighur militants stabbed more than 150 people at a train station, killing 31. Mr. Xi called for an all-out “struggle against terrorism, infiltration and separatism” using the “organs of dictatorship,” and showing “absolutely no mercy.” ... ... The internment camps in Xinjiang expanded rapidly after the appointment in August 2016 of Chen Quanguo, a zealous new party boss for the region. He distributed Mr. Xi’s speeches to justify the campaign and exhorted officials to “round up everyone who should be rounded up.” The crackdown encountered doubts and resistance from local officials who feared it would exacerbate ethnic tensions and stifle economic growth. Mr. Chen responded by purging officials suspected of standing in his way, including one county leader who was jailed after quietly releasing thousands of inmates from the camps. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch... The most striking sentence in the NYT report is this one, describing the alleged motivations for the leak: Though it is unclear how the documents were gathered and selected, the leak suggests greater discontent inside the party apparatus over the crackdown than previously known. The papers were brought to light by a member of the Chinese political establishment who requested anonymity and expressed hope that their disclosure would prevent party leaders, including Mr. Xi, from escaping culpability for the mass detentions.
- bigpumpkin 5y agoClassic NYTimes taking quotes out of context. Note the reporter can't even quote full sentences but rather construct their own narrative with a very selective use of phrases in the Xi document. Where in the document did Xi direct the Chinese State against Uighurs? Full paragraph quotes, please.
- aaron695 5y agoIt's clever isn't it. “organs of dictatorship,” has a meaning dating back to at least 60's China. But I can't work out what this English translation of their saying means. https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/peking-review/1968/PR1968-44g.htm https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/peking-review/1968/PR... Perhaps NYTimes is writing at a political scholar of China audience, rather than the average person?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throwawaysea 5y ago> Those torture methods, according to the report, included "beatings, electric shocks, stress positions, the unlawful use of restraints (including being locked in a tiger chair), sleep deprivation, being hung from a wall, being subjected to extremely cold temperatures, and solitary confinement". > The "tiger chair" - the existence of which has been reported elsewhere - is said to be a steel chair with leg irons and handcuffs designed to shackle the body in place. Several former detainees told Amnesty they were forced to watch others locked immobile in the tiger chair for hours or even days at a time. I hadn't heard of what a "tiger chair" was, and found a picture at the Daily Mail. It's apparently just a metal chair, but staying immobilized on it for days can be torturous and causes swelling or bleeding on the legs and buttocks: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421938/China-claims-notorious-torture-chair-comfortable.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421938/China-claim...
- pmoriarty 5y ago"The tiger chair, also known as a tiger bench, is a five-foot long board with a vertical backrest on one end. The tortured detainee sits lengthwise with his or her legs stretching down the board. His or her arms are restricted behind the backrest. The mouth may or may not be gaged, but often times left unobstructed to allow for shouts and screams that can frighten other prisoners. Initially, ropes are tied tightly around the legs, above and below the knee. This procedure has been reported to cause extreme discomfort as the ropes cut into the skin. Next, bricks are placed underneath the calves elevating the legs. Not only are the bricks uncomfortable, but also the knees start to stress from hypertension--unnatural backward bending of the knee. At the same time, the tension in the rope increases as the bricks are added digging into the victim's skin and muscle tissue. The more the victim resists, the greater the chance for bricks to be added, increasing the legs elevation and tension in the ropes. The torture progresses until the ropes break. It has been documented; prisoners have gone to a literal breaking point with bone fractures. Additionally, metal poles or wooden rods with weights on the end will be placed over the victim's legs increasing the severity in pain. Finally, as the victim is tied, he or she is unable to defend against punches, kicks, electrical prods, and so on. One detainee said, "I sat until my buttocks bled." The victim can be left in the same position for hours, even days in discomfort." https://www.laogai.it/tiger-chair-tool-for-torture https://www.laogai.it/tiger-chair-tool-for-torture
- randomopining 5y agoGuys like LeMao James will agree with whatever they say lol, as long as they keep their checks coming.