4 ms·

The right response to all of these kinds of things is 'so an iPhone only cost $150 in 1665?' EDIT: To make the point more clearly - we get a very accurate glob

by RC_ITR 5y ago

The right response to all of these kinds of things is 'so an iPhone only cost $150 in 1665?' EDIT: To make the point more clearly - we get a very accurate global map for free (with ground level pictures, even!), but that would have been an unimaginable luxury anytime before 2000.

Retric 5y ago
Just as you can get a live Passenger Pigeon, Dodo, etc in 2021 for ??? Inflation is a measure of the value of Money not other things.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  Lol, inflation is a measure of the supply of money vs. the supply of any non money thing. The whole “inflation is a monetary phenomenon” belief is why we’ve had “unexplained” falling inflation since China began exporting goods to the US. And to the pigeon point, I can? It’s just a very very small part of the inflation basket, so it’s not super relevant. As for the dodo, were those ever consumption goods? I’m not getting your point. EDIT: I’ll take an L where it’s due. The species passenger pigeon (which is extinct), not a pigeon used to transmit messages. But I guess the same point as the dodo applies, then.
  - Retric 5y ago
    The Passenger Pigeon went extinct because we used it as a cheap food source. They where sometimes fattened in captivity, but often just hunted. As such it was a commodity in much the same way as iPads or Oil.
    - RC_ITR 5y ago
      iPads are famously not a commodity. They are a branded good. And just to be clear, people still eat squab all the time. The fact that it’s a different species of pigeon likely has 0 impact on consumer welfare. Is your point that resources are finite? I agree. And I also agree that fact is a major forward looking risk that could drive inflation, but if your argument is that there are numerous desirable things from the 17th Century that we do not have access to, then I’d have to disagree. Human innovation has just been too rapid over that period.
      - Retric 5y ago
        Many extinct species where known for being quite tasty without any surviving equivalents. Being unusually tasty is in fact why many species are extinct because people put extra effort into hunting them. Now you personally may not particularly care but most species have a rather distinct flavor which is why flounder, salmon, etc are listed differently on a menu rather than as generic fish. PS: Among my circle of friends Tablets/iPads are into the whole Tissue/Kleenex brand as synonyms with category.
        RC_ITR 5y ago
        I mean, it's sort of great that now this is just a back and forth about the specifics of squab, but I assure you, most squab farmed today will taste far better than 'game' passenger pigeon. Not to blow up my own spot, but if you want better metaphors against arguments like mine, the Ansault pear and Gros Michel banana are better candidates.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        > I mean, it's sort of great that now this is just a back and forth about the specifics of squab, but I assure you, most squab farmed today will taste far better than 'game' passenger pigeon. How?!? How can you assure anyone of that, when the passenger pigeon has been extinct for over a century? (If you're talking from experience, you're easily the oldest HN poster.)
zild3d 5y ago
What you could not buy for even a trillion dollars in 1665, is now free
- kybernetikos 5y ago
  Some of the functions of an iphone could have been somewhat replicated with enough money. The very wealthy could afford to pay musicians to play the music they wanted when they wanted it. (Somewhat) detailed maps were available for large sums of money or sometimes painted on walls. If you had enough money, you could commission an expedition to map somewhere. You could pay someone to carry messages to those you wanted to communicate with. Skilled artists could paint pictures of your food, or selfies, if you were prepared to sit still long enough. Of course, even this hypothetical gaggle of skilled servants following you around all day would still not be able to cover some of the basic aspects of a modern mobile phone, but if you can apply enough cheap labour, you can do quite a lot.
  - zild3d 5y ago
    now do facetime with someone on another continent :)
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Now explain to a modern kid what is privacy. The kids born today will never see a coral rief or an iceberg or a glacier, most kids living today have never tasted an actully ripe tomato.
      - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
        They also haven't died of cholera or due to a broken leg. I doubt an average child saw a coral reef, iceberg or a glacier in their lifetime at any point in history.
      - RC_ITR 5y ago
        Most kids in any era ever have not tasted a ripe tomato. Until very recently it’s unlikely that most even saw a tomato.
HPsquared 5y ago
Technology is deflationary, in general.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Thats precisely the wrong responce, how does an iPhone help when somone can't afford housing or insulin and dies? Both costs skyrocketed. Besides many natural reources are increasing i. Price or dissapearing, from caviar to the amazon rainforest to the great barrier rief. We had very accurate maps in 1970's, just because they were on paper doesn't mean they were bad for navigation. They also didnt run out of battery.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  You think it’s harder being a homeless person with a phone vs not having one? You also think a smaller percentage people are housing unstable today vs 1665? Be careful how you answer, because you have to include non-white people in that figure too. I simply do not get your point. Housing is more expensive for a lot of reasons, but it’s sure as hell more abundant today than it was in the 17th century.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    That's the paradox, we have the fewest people per house ever, but the houses are the most expensive they've ever been. "You think it’s harder being a homeless person with a phone vs not having one?" I dunno, have you tried freezing to death, does it feel better if you can distract yourself with candy crush?

by RC_ITR 5y ago

Retric 5y ago

Just as you can get a live Passenger Pigeon, Dodo, etc in 2021 for ??? Inflation is a measure of the value of Money not other things.

RC_ITR 5y ago
Lol, inflation is a measure of the supply of money vs. the supply of any non money thing. The whole “inflation is a monetary phenomenon” belief is why we’ve had “unexplained” falling inflation since China began exporting goods to the US. And to the pigeon point, I can? It’s just a very very small part of the inflation basket, so it’s not super relevant. As for the dodo, were those ever consumption goods? I’m not getting your point. EDIT: I’ll take an L where it’s due. The species passenger pigeon (which is extinct), not a pigeon used to transmit messages. But I guess the same point as the dodo applies, then.
- Retric 5y ago
  The Passenger Pigeon went extinct because we used it as a cheap food source. They where sometimes fattened in captivity, but often just hunted. As such it was a commodity in much the same way as iPads or Oil.
  - RC_ITR 5y ago
    iPads are famously not a commodity. They are a branded good. And just to be clear, people still eat squab all the time. The fact that it’s a different species of pigeon likely has 0 impact on consumer welfare. Is your point that resources are finite? I agree. And I also agree that fact is a major forward looking risk that could drive inflation, but if your argument is that there are numerous desirable things from the 17th Century that we do not have access to, then I’d have to disagree. Human innovation has just been too rapid over that period.
    - Retric 5y ago
      Many extinct species where known for being quite tasty without any surviving equivalents. Being unusually tasty is in fact why many species are extinct because people put extra effort into hunting them. Now you personally may not particularly care but most species have a rather distinct flavor which is why flounder, salmon, etc are listed differently on a menu rather than as generic fish. PS: Among my circle of friends Tablets/iPads are into the whole Tissue/Kleenex brand as synonyms with category.
      - RC_ITR 5y ago
        I mean, it's sort of great that now this is just a back and forth about the specifics of squab, but I assure you, most squab farmed today will taste far better than 'game' passenger pigeon. Not to blow up my own spot, but if you want better metaphors against arguments like mine, the Ansault pear and Gros Michel banana are better candidates.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        > I mean, it's sort of great that now this is just a back and forth about the specifics of squab, but I assure you, most squab farmed today will taste far better than 'game' passenger pigeon. How?!? How can you assure anyone of that, when the passenger pigeon has been extinct for over a century? (If you're talking from experience, you're easily the oldest HN poster.)

zild3d 5y ago

What you could not buy for even a trillion dollars in 1665, is now free

kybernetikos 5y ago
Some of the functions of an iphone could have been somewhat replicated with enough money. The very wealthy could afford to pay musicians to play the music they wanted when they wanted it. (Somewhat) detailed maps were available for large sums of money or sometimes painted on walls. If you had enough money, you could commission an expedition to map somewhere. You could pay someone to carry messages to those you wanted to communicate with. Skilled artists could paint pictures of your food, or selfies, if you were prepared to sit still long enough. Of course, even this hypothetical gaggle of skilled servants following you around all day would still not be able to cover some of the basic aspects of a modern mobile phone, but if you can apply enough cheap labour, you can do quite a lot.
- zild3d 5y ago
  now do facetime with someone on another continent :)
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Now explain to a modern kid what is privacy. The kids born today will never see a coral rief or an iceberg or a glacier, most kids living today have never tasted an actully ripe tomato.
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
      They also haven't died of cholera or due to a broken leg. I doubt an average child saw a coral reef, iceberg or a glacier in their lifetime at any point in history.
    - RC_ITR 5y ago
      Most kids in any era ever have not tasted a ripe tomato. Until very recently it’s unlikely that most even saw a tomato.

HPsquared 5y ago

Technology is deflationary, in general.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

Thats precisely the wrong responce, how does an iPhone help when somone can't afford housing or insulin and dies? Both costs skyrocketed. Besides many natural reources are increasing i. Price or dissapearing, from caviar to the amazon rainforest to the great barrier rief. We had very accurate maps in 1970's, just because they were on paper doesn't mean they were bad for navigation. They also didnt run out of battery.

RC_ITR 5y ago
You think it’s harder being a homeless person with a phone vs not having one? You also think a smaller percentage people are housing unstable today vs 1665? Be careful how you answer, because you have to include non-white people in that figure too. I simply do not get your point. Housing is more expensive for a lot of reasons, but it’s sure as hell more abundant today than it was in the 17th century.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  That's the paradox, we have the fewest people per house ever, but the houses are the most expensive they've ever been. "You think it’s harder being a homeless person with a phone vs not having one?" I dunno, have you tried freezing to death, does it feel better if you can distract yourself with candy crush?