4 ms·

First off, I have personally seen, as justincormack describes, compiled Go as it currently exists being roughly comparable to Java, as it currently exists. I h

First off, I have personally seen, as justincormack describes, compiled Go as it currently exists being roughly comparable to Java, as it currently exists. I haven't burned much time looking around, but I was unable to find what version of Go they were using, or even what compiler for it (there are two major ones, with dramatic performance differences). Furthermore, it is a fact that Go at it's current maturity does little real optimization. Regardless of how "commonplace" languages beating Java may or may not be, Go should stand a very solid chance of doing it, provided it continues to see love. anyway, Java also loses handily on startup times, and only wins in runtime speeds against statically typed languages compiling to native code that lack the same tier of backing. Notice that one of the languages that beats Java is C++, possibly the single ugliest language in actual use. Practically a worse case scenario for a language developer but I don't think there has ever been a point in history which it doesn't cream Java. Hobbyist languages, which I would classify most of the languages on that list as (well, the ones that are even commonly compiled to native code in the first place...) will rarely compete with mature enterprise backed languages, but when you weight by funding, compiled languages clean house. Continued development of systems such as LLVM which blur the distinction between the two will only serve to improve the situation. aside: I find their Fortran statistic suspect as well. In my professional experience a well designed Fortran program will kick C's ass nearly every time. At least in scientific computing applications anyway.

igouy 15y ago
>>I don't think there has ever been a point in history which it [C++] doesn't cream Java<< Still waiting for that faster C++ fannkuch-redux program (and still waiting for a C fannkuch-redux program that uses multi core). http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=fannkuchredux&lang=all http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=fa... >>when you weight by funding<< Please show total $$$ amounts spent on the development of each programming language over the last several decades - so we can weight by funding. (Should funding for Plan 9 compilers be accounted as funding for Go? Should funding for GCC compilers be accounted as funding for GCCGO?) >>I find their Fortran statistic suspect as well ... At least in scientific computing...<< When you don't look, you won't find - http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=nbody http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=... http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=spectralnorm http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=...
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  I don't have the time to, nor do I care to, evaluate the legitimacy of their benchmarking suite. But, are you honestly suggesting that Java hasn't had dramatically more corporate funding than Go? Don't be absurd.
  - igouy 15y ago
    Here's what you claimed - "but when you weight by funding, compiled languages clean house". But you don't seem to have any information at all on $$$ amounts spent on the development of compiled languages (C, C++, Fortran, ...) compared to others (Java). Obviously you don't know what would result "when you weight by funding".
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      If you want to ask the GCC folk for an estimate of how much of their development has been done while on the payroll of other companies, feel free to do so. I expect you will find that it is somewhere within a few orders of magnitude as what was spent on Java by Sun in the past 2 decades. In short, my suggestion is that shittons of money has been spent on Java while relatively little money has been spent on Go. Yet somehow they are currently pretty evenhanded. You haven't been able to provide any sources that suggest other than this rather sensible claim. Funny how that works.
      - igouy 15y ago
        > my suggestion is that ... Here's what you claimed - "but when you weight by funding, compiled languages clean house". Do you wish to abandon that claim?
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        Not in the slightest. Do you wish to address it?
- justincormack 15y ago

igouy 15y ago

>>I don't think there has ever been a point in history which it [C++] doesn't cream Java<< Still waiting for that faster C++ fannkuch-redux program (and still waiting for a C fannkuch-redux program that uses multi core). http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=fannkuchredux&lang=all http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=fa... >>when you weight by funding<< Please show total $$$ amounts spent on the development of each programming language over the last several decades - so we can weight by funding. (Should funding for Plan 9 compilers be accounted as funding for Go? Should funding for GCC compilers be accounted as funding for GCCGO?) >>I find their Fortran statistic suspect as well ... At least in scientific computing...<< When you don't look, you won't find - http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=nbody http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=... http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=spectralnorm http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=...

burgerbrain 15y ago
I don't have the time to, nor do I care to, evaluate the legitimacy of their benchmarking suite. But, are you honestly suggesting that Java hasn't had dramatically more corporate funding than Go? Don't be absurd.
- igouy 15y ago
  Here's what you claimed - "but when you weight by funding, compiled languages clean house". But you don't seem to have any information at all on $$$ amounts spent on the development of compiled languages (C, C++, Fortran, ...) compared to others (Java). Obviously you don't know what would result "when you weight by funding".
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    If you want to ask the GCC folk for an estimate of how much of their development has been done while on the payroll of other companies, feel free to do so. I expect you will find that it is somewhere within a few orders of magnitude as what was spent on Java by Sun in the past 2 decades. In short, my suggestion is that shittons of money has been spent on Java while relatively little money has been spent on Go. Yet somehow they are currently pretty evenhanded. You haven't been able to provide any sources that suggest other than this rather sensible claim. Funny how that works.
    - igouy 15y ago
      > my suggestion is that ... Here's what you claimed - "but when you weight by funding, compiled languages clean house". Do you wish to abandon that claim?
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        Not in the slightest. Do you wish to address it?
justincormack 15y ago