6 ms·

Blender-OSM Add-on: Current state and ongoing development

54 points by app4soft 5y ago

app4soft 5y ago
Thread on Twitter.[0] JFTR, Blender-OSM Add-on source code is under GNU GPL.[1] [0] https://twitter.com/OSArchOrg/status/1400826200986165251 https://twitter.com/OSArchOrg/status/1400826200986165251 [1] https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42 https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42
- edflsafoiewq 5y ago
  > If you share or publish Python scripts they have to be made available compliant to the GNU GPL as well, if they use Blender Python API calls. Is it actually possible to put constraints on scripts that make calls to an API like this?
  - ygra 5y ago
    If I remember correctly that depends a lot on the interpretation of the word linking in the GPL. A lot of the license language only works reliably for C code and expectations around it, and things tend to break down in more dynamic languages.
    - app4soft 5y ago
      > A lot of the license language only works reliably for C Few years ago Ton Roosendaal clarified Blender licensing in a long thread on Twitter: > Blender is Free Software. It's free to use for everyone. Free to use for any purpose, also commercially. Blender is free to share with others, free to study its sources and free make new versions. Blender is free, forever. #b3d[0] > This freedom is what makes the GNU GPL license so powerful and it's why it's much more than "open source". The license simply prevents anyone to put restrictions on Blender. That protects users as well as everyone who contribute to Blender.[1] > If you decide to contribute to Blender, whether as Python script or as C++ code, you have to agree on this freedom. You can keep all rights of your own work, but if you publish or sell or share Blender code, you do it just as Free as Blender is.[2] > Blender add-ons work, look and feel like Blender features. And as for any other Blender feature that means - it has to be free, free and free forever! Paying for an add-on just means access to the add-on download service... offering it to you as GNU GPL. Your freedom guaranteed.[3] [0] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229214607773696 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229214607773696 [1] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229215761195009 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229215761195009 [2] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229217040474113 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229217040474113 [3] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229221838761984 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229221838761984
  - leoedin 5y ago
    That seems odd to me. Are they arguing that the API calls themselves are under copyright, and so the GPL applies? That sounds like a similar situation to the Google vs Oracle lawsuit - which ruled that the API usage was fair use. If I write a Python script which a user can use to interact with Blender, and I share it without sharing a copy of Blender, why does the GPL apply? Taking this to its conclusion - if I write a Python script on Linux which uses any system APIs, those APIs are also licensed under the GPL. By that reasoning every Python script which runs on Linux must be GPL. That's obviously not the case - which suggests that maybe the Blender declaration is also unenforceable.
    - detaro 5y ago
      It's not strictly the API definition that's protected, it's the linking to the GPLed software that is (with Python imports considered equivalent to linking). The Linux APIs have an explicit exception in the license allowing this. Blender does not.
      - leoedin 5y ago
        That's interesting to learn about the Linux APIs - not something I knew. I'm still not sure about the GPL claims though. Imagine I write a Python script which is entirely my own - the only reference it has to a GPLd piece of software is an import statement and a few calls to some APIs. The Google vs Oracle case made it clear that API usage (and even re-implementation) falls under fair use. The rest of that script is entirely written by me, and therefore I own its copyright. I could even develop the script entirely without running (or even having on my computer) any GPLd software at all - relying just on published documentation of APIs, the usage of which has been established to be fair use. If I send you just the script. I'm not distributing a GPLd work. Maybe you could choose to run it on your computer, at which point it would resolve my "import x" statement as pointing to some GPLd software. It's only at that point that there's any linking. If you had a different PYTHONPATH setup, the same module might be a different, proprietary implementation, or a mock. What basis does the copyright owner of the GPLd software have to come after me? I haven't accepted their license. The only person they could possibly have a case against is the end user of the script - who has violated the GPL by linking my non-free script with their GPL software. But if they're not themselves distributing the combined work, is there a case of copyright violation?
- yorwba 5y ago
  Why link to that old issue instead of just the LICENSE file? https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/blob/dev/LICENSE https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/blob/dev/LICENSE
  - app4soft 5y ago
    > Why link to that old issue instead of just the LICENSE file? Because until linked issue thread was started there was NO branches with a source and `LICENSE` file — as on 2017 in add-on repo there was only one branch with a single file (`README.md`) without any metnions of GNU GPL licensing. See this comment[0]. BTW, Only in early 2020 branches with a source and `LICENSE` file was added into repo.[1] [0] https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment-320190167 https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment... [1] https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment-590780843 https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment...
mensetmanusman 5y ago
A decade ago or more I played a lot of action quake and I remember when I travelled to Europe how awesome some of the locations would be as levels. A future fun FPS mod would be to take the output from a project like this and randomly throw you in various small parts of the world for team competitions. People could play their whole lives and learn every major city’s layout. :)
- bogwog 5y ago
  I can see the headlines already: > Satanic video game trains children on how to shoot up their neighborhoods
- sorenjan 5y ago
  It could probably be done with Cesium for Unreal, although I question weather it's a good idea to provide shooter games in real locations. Perhaps a less violent sandbox game would be a better idea. https://cesium.com/platform/cesium-for-unreal/ https://cesium.com/platform/cesium-for-unreal/
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    Shooter games are just paintball wars for the brain.
  - app4soft 5y ago
    There is also plugin for Godot Engine[0] and a lot of other frameworks[1] and tools.[2,3] [0] https://github.com/RodZill4/godot-openstreetmap https://github.com/RodZill4/godot-openstreetmap [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frameworks https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frameworks [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Development https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Development
- G4E 5y ago
  That's more or less what was done in Overwatch from Blizzard. Each map is based on a real location/city and uses its local architecture, typical layout... (However it's not 1:1 with reality. For example the map Rialto is obviously based on Venice, but you won't recognise any particular street or place).
Jakobeha 5y ago
I'm patiently waiting for a game which lets you play in real-life environments. Like an FPS or racing or sim game that lets me play in my favorite cities, or better yet, my favorite towns. Doesn't even have to be accurate, although it probably needs to look realistic. Like I really only need the aesthetics, not the specific placement / distance of buildings. As long as I get the "feel" of familiar cities / nature that would be awesome. Geoguessr is already a popular game, and all you do is travel around a location and guess where it is.
- tirab18 5y ago
  Doesn't the newest flight simulator already do this?
  - app4soft 5y ago
    > Doesn't the newest flight simulator already do this? Latest FlightGear already supports OpenStreetMap's OSM Data to be used as scenery source.[0] > Like an FPS or racing or sim game that lets me play in my favorite cities, or better yet, my favorite towns. In most cases you could convert OSM Data of your town[2] using Blender into scenery for such games, which supports import user created scenery. May be some additional export add-ons for Blender would be required to instal for specific game file formats. [0] https://wiki.flightgear.org/OpenStreetMap https://wiki.flightgear.org/OpenStreetMap [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FlightGear https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FlightGear [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Export https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Export
  - zlsa 5y ago
    Yes, MSFS uses satellite/aerial imagery and OSM data for buildings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-meVo-bhMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-meVo-bhMw
  - Jakobeha 5y ago
    Yes! The only issue is that it takes a beefy GPU on a PC. Which I guess would happen on most games like this, but it still means it's unplayable for me.

54 points by app4soft 5y ago

Thread on Twitter.[0] JFTR, Blender-OSM Add-on source code is under GNU GPL.[1] [0] https://twitter.com/OSArchOrg/status/1400826200986165251 https://twitter.com/OSArchOrg/status/1400826200986165251 [1] https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42 https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42

edflsafoiewq 5y ago
> If you share or publish Python scripts they have to be made available compliant to the GNU GPL as well, if they use Blender Python API calls. Is it actually possible to put constraints on scripts that make calls to an API like this?
- ygra 5y ago
  If I remember correctly that depends a lot on the interpretation of the word linking in the GPL. A lot of the license language only works reliably for C code and expectations around it, and things tend to break down in more dynamic languages.
  - app4soft 5y ago
    > A lot of the license language only works reliably for C Few years ago Ton Roosendaal clarified Blender licensing in a long thread on Twitter: > Blender is Free Software. It's free to use for everyone. Free to use for any purpose, also commercially. Blender is free to share with others, free to study its sources and free make new versions. Blender is free, forever. #b3d[0] > This freedom is what makes the GNU GPL license so powerful and it's why it's much more than "open source". The license simply prevents anyone to put restrictions on Blender. That protects users as well as everyone who contribute to Blender.[1] > If you decide to contribute to Blender, whether as Python script or as C++ code, you have to agree on this freedom. You can keep all rights of your own work, but if you publish or sell or share Blender code, you do it just as Free as Blender is.[2] > Blender add-ons work, look and feel like Blender features. And as for any other Blender feature that means - it has to be free, free and free forever! Paying for an add-on just means access to the add-on download service... offering it to you as GNU GPL. Your freedom guaranteed.[3] [0] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229214607773696 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229214607773696 [1] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229215761195009 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229215761195009 [2] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229217040474113 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229217040474113 [3] https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229221838761984 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1135229221838761984
- leoedin 5y ago
  That seems odd to me. Are they arguing that the API calls themselves are under copyright, and so the GPL applies? That sounds like a similar situation to the Google vs Oracle lawsuit - which ruled that the API usage was fair use. If I write a Python script which a user can use to interact with Blender, and I share it without sharing a copy of Blender, why does the GPL apply? Taking this to its conclusion - if I write a Python script on Linux which uses any system APIs, those APIs are also licensed under the GPL. By that reasoning every Python script which runs on Linux must be GPL. That's obviously not the case - which suggests that maybe the Blender declaration is also unenforceable.
  - detaro 5y ago
    It's not strictly the API definition that's protected, it's the linking to the GPLed software that is (with Python imports considered equivalent to linking). The Linux APIs have an explicit exception in the license allowing this. Blender does not.
    - leoedin 5y ago
      That's interesting to learn about the Linux APIs - not something I knew. I'm still not sure about the GPL claims though. Imagine I write a Python script which is entirely my own - the only reference it has to a GPLd piece of software is an import statement and a few calls to some APIs. The Google vs Oracle case made it clear that API usage (and even re-implementation) falls under fair use. The rest of that script is entirely written by me, and therefore I own its copyright. I could even develop the script entirely without running (or even having on my computer) any GPLd software at all - relying just on published documentation of APIs, the usage of which has been established to be fair use. If I send you just the script. I'm not distributing a GPLd work. Maybe you could choose to run it on your computer, at which point it would resolve my "import x" statement as pointing to some GPLd software. It's only at that point that there's any linking. If you had a different PYTHONPATH setup, the same module might be a different, proprietary implementation, or a mock. What basis does the copyright owner of the GPLd software have to come after me? I haven't accepted their license. The only person they could possibly have a case against is the end user of the script - who has violated the GPL by linking my non-free script with their GPL software. But if they're not themselves distributing the combined work, is there a case of copyright violation?
yorwba 5y ago
Why link to that old issue instead of just the LICENSE file? https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/blob/dev/LICENSE https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/blob/dev/LICENSE
- app4soft 5y ago
  > Why link to that old issue instead of just the LICENSE file? Because until linked issue thread was started there was NO branches with a source and `LICENSE` file — as on 2017 in add-on repo there was only one branch with a single file (`README.md`) without any metnions of GNU GPL licensing. See this comment[0]. BTW, Only in early 2020 branches with a source and `LICENSE` file was added into repo.[1] [0] https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment-320190167 https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment... [1] https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment-590780843 https://github.com/vvoovv/blender-osm/issues/42#issuecomment...

mensetmanusman 5y ago

A decade ago or more I played a lot of action quake and I remember when I travelled to Europe how awesome some of the locations would be as levels. A future fun FPS mod would be to take the output from a project like this and randomly throw you in various small parts of the world for team competitions. People could play their whole lives and learn every major city’s layout. :)

bogwog 5y ago
I can see the headlines already: > Satanic video game trains children on how to shoot up their neighborhoods
sorenjan 5y ago
It could probably be done with Cesium for Unreal, although I question weather it's a good idea to provide shooter games in real locations. Perhaps a less violent sandbox game would be a better idea. https://cesium.com/platform/cesium-for-unreal/ https://cesium.com/platform/cesium-for-unreal/
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Shooter games are just paintball wars for the brain.
- app4soft 5y ago
  There is also plugin for Godot Engine[0] and a lot of other frameworks[1] and tools.[2,3] [0] https://github.com/RodZill4/godot-openstreetmap https://github.com/RodZill4/godot-openstreetmap [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frameworks https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frameworks [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Development https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/3D_Development
G4E 5y ago
That's more or less what was done in Overwatch from Blizzard. Each map is based on a real location/city and uses its local architecture, typical layout... (However it's not 1:1 with reality. For example the map Rialto is obviously based on Venice, but you won't recognise any particular street or place).

Jakobeha 5y ago

I'm patiently waiting for a game which lets you play in real-life environments. Like an FPS or racing or sim game that lets me play in my favorite cities, or better yet, my favorite towns. Doesn't even have to be accurate, although it probably needs to look realistic. Like I really only need the aesthetics, not the specific placement / distance of buildings. As long as I get the "feel" of familiar cities / nature that would be awesome. Geoguessr is already a popular game, and all you do is travel around a location and guess where it is.

tirab18 5y ago
Doesn't the newest flight simulator already do this?
- app4soft 5y ago
  > Doesn't the newest flight simulator already do this? Latest FlightGear already supports OpenStreetMap's OSM Data to be used as scenery source.[0] > Like an FPS or racing or sim game that lets me play in my favorite cities, or better yet, my favorite towns. In most cases you could convert OSM Data of your town[2] using Blender into scenery for such games, which supports import user created scenery. May be some additional export add-ons for Blender would be required to instal for specific game file formats. [0] https://wiki.flightgear.org/OpenStreetMap https://wiki.flightgear.org/OpenStreetMap [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FlightGear https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FlightGear [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Export https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Export
- zlsa 5y ago
  Yes, MSFS uses satellite/aerial imagery and OSM data for buildings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-meVo-bhMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-meVo-bhMw
- Jakobeha 5y ago
  Yes! The only issue is that it takes a beefy GPU on a PC. Which I guess would happen on most games like this, but it still means it's unplayable for me.