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let me come back to you with a question: do you have an example where this works? being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability: you can change low le

by zuppy 5y ago

let me come back to you with a question: do you have an example where this works? being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability: you can change low level features and break things. if there is a chance to do it, people can be tricked to do it. of course, i'm excluding here people who have knowledge, as i continue to belive that they are a minority.

fsflover 5y ago
> being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability Any computer with preinstalled Linux will "just work". Typical users will only install apps from the repositories, and those are more secure and private than App Store.
fouric 5y ago
> do you have an example where this works? Yes. On my laptop, Linux is extremely stable, and yet extremely hackable. What, Linux doesn't work for you flawlessly? 99% chance it's drivers, which has nothing to do with stability and everything to do with the limited amount of effort that people have poured into drivers on that particular platform. > being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability False. "Stability" implicitly means "without modifications". There's no product or (human-made) system in existence that remains stable once you start making arbitrary modifications to it. > if there is a chance to do it, people can be tricked to do it Yes, and "freedom" (which is a core tenet of the United States Constitution, where most HN commenters are based) includes the ability to do things that will hurt yourself. "We know what's better for you than you do" leads to tyranny the majority of the time (as it does here, where Apple has full control of their devices and regularly makes decisions that hurt their users). Moreover, it's relatively easy to design a system that prevents the vast majority of users from shooting themselves in the foot (by making root(-adjacent) access difficult to acquire by accident and fairly difficult to be tricked into doing), and coupled with actual education would keep the levels of this particular kind of computer fraud (where someone convinces you to bypass your computer's security features) well below the rates of other computer fraud (such as falling prey to scam emails).
int_19h 5y ago
I know many people using Android devices, with no problem "getting tricked into" breaking things. And yet, on mine, I can easily enable side-loading, or even unlock the bootloader. ChromeOS is a similar story - even more so, actually, given that it can run a full fledged Linux distro within the system.

by zuppy 5y ago

fsflover 5y ago

> being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability Any computer with preinstalled Linux will "just work". Typical users will only install apps from the repositories, and those are more secure and private than App Store.

fouric 5y ago

> do you have an example where this works? Yes. On my laptop, Linux is extremely stable, and yet extremely hackable. What, Linux doesn't work for you flawlessly? 99% chance it's drivers, which has nothing to do with stability and everything to do with the limited amount of effort that people have poured into drivers on that particular platform. > being hackable means exactly the opposite of stability False. "Stability" implicitly means "without modifications". There's no product or (human-made) system in existence that remains stable once you start making arbitrary modifications to it. > if there is a chance to do it, people can be tricked to do it Yes, and "freedom" (which is a core tenet of the United States Constitution, where most HN commenters are based) includes the ability to do things that will hurt yourself. "We know what's better for you than you do" leads to tyranny the majority of the time (as it does here, where Apple has full control of their devices and regularly makes decisions that hurt their users). Moreover, it's relatively easy to design a system that prevents the vast majority of users from shooting themselves in the foot (by making root(-adjacent) access difficult to acquire by accident and fairly difficult to be tricked into doing), and coupled with actual education would keep the levels of this particular kind of computer fraud (where someone convinces you to bypass your computer's security features) well below the rates of other computer fraud (such as falling prey to scam emails).

int_19h 5y ago

I know many people using Android devices, with no problem "getting tricked into" breaking things. And yet, on mine, I can easily enable side-loading, or even unlock the bootloader. ChromeOS is a similar story - even more so, actually, given that it can run a full fledged Linux distro within the system.