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It makes him tell everyone he's happy but that's where it ends. He's got too much pride to tell the truth. And those aren't quirks; they are big stinking probl

by hughrr 5y ago

It makes him tell everyone he's happy but that's where it ends. He's got too much pride to tell the truth. And those aren't quirks; they are big stinking problems. Never write down a problem as something that isn't one. I owned a Merc 190E once that was a bag of problems. My life got better and I got happier the day I acknowledged them and got rid of it.

callamdelaney 5y ago
I own a Tesla, have the base model 3 and didn't pay for full self driving. On motorways and A roads the self drive experience is reasonably adequate. Naturally, on any reasonably long journey there are dozens of times you'll have to take over from autopilot and steer around some corner or some hazard. It really doesn't bother me whether it gets better or they add full self driving. Charging your car isn't a big stinking problem, it's an inherent feature.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Model 3 is a much better proposition on features and price though.
pjc50 5y ago
> It makes him tell everyone he's happy but that's where it ends. He's got too much pride to tell the truth. This seems to be a very 21st century phenomenon; product marketing gets replaced by cult membership. You don't buy a Tesla to experience a great car, you buy Tesla to tell everyone how great the experience is.
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  It’s a very human problem from like 40k years ago. We evolved to belong to tribes and feel most comfortable in them. The difference is that with how mobile we are now, both physically and as far as our ability to communicate, we can now form tribes not based on our family and geographic location (which often times doesn’t fit us all that well) but based on what products we consume: cars we buy, video games we play, music we listen to, etc. These consumer tribes are exactly like every other tribe we have formed before, just look novel because of the focus of them. This is why you’ll see people talk about how “the Harley meet up guys are just the nicest people”. It’s only partially about the product, mostly about the sense of belonging. And before anyone calls this sad (which it might or might not be), consider that the alternative is either isolation by rejecting all forms of tribalism, or tribes formed around more harmful old school ideas (religious cults, violence-based tribes, tribes based on race/gender/etc.), or tribes we were born into and have no choice to leave because we can’t just buy the services of a farmer, a plumber, or a babysitter and have to rely exclusively on our tribe for those kinds of needs.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    There are alternatives that doesn't go as far as isolation or religion of course. You mention a great example yourself that shows how you can be extreme/religious for no good reason when a open alternative is clearly present: It's a worldwide phenomenon that motorcyclists in general wants to be open and inclusive. We wave to each other when we pass on the road, talk when we meet at gas stations and so on. But a Harley is not a motorcycle, it is a Harley. Most don't wave back, all frown if you try to talk to them if not out on your own Harley today but some Japanese bike and so on. Tesla and Apple users are very often in the same category of religious fanaticism for no good reason except brand loyalty. That is sad as one should be able to own a Harley, be part of a Harley crowd and not be religious about it but most (not all!) fall into this trap. A tribe that is divided because of some businesses PR is always sad and harmful.
    - IgorPartola 5y ago
      Heh. So I ride with mostly Harley guys though I don’t ride a Harley. One of the reasons we don’t wave back when riding as a group is that we use hand signals to communicate and waving looks like a left turn signal. As a result, we aren’t allowed to wave on group rides. Secondary thing is that motorcycling is just a larger and looser consumer tribe than Harley or Yamaha or Ducati riders. Not quite as large as motorcycles + trikes, which is still smaller than bikes, trikes, and scooters. To some degree it is turtles all the way down in terms of how exclusive vs inclusive you want to be. I personally don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with consumer tribes. The question is how does each one treat its members and newcomers and is it a healthy environment for everyone involved?
      - Dah00n 5y ago
        I can see how a group ride could see it like this but single Harley riders don't greet you back either (unless I'm on a Harley or something they in passing might think is a Harley). I'm guessing you are from the US, which I'm not, but I have never seen this in other bikers no matter the brand. Sure Ducati guys often hang out with eachother at a meet, as do other groups, but it's not like they don't greet other riders. Heck, I even wave (end get waved at) when I drive my Alfa Romeo by both other Alfa drivers but also people in classic cars (and a few Ducati riders even). Totally different cultures than Harley riders, which I think is sad.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>It makes him tell everyone he's happy but that's where it ends. He's got too much pride to tell the truth. Toyota frames rust out. KitchenAid gears strip (and half the stuff they put their name on is just badged garbage to begin with). Snap On tools break. LL Bean stuff wears our prematurely. Being in a "good school district" fails to magically make your kid successful. The guy with the $2k fishing setup gets out-fished by the teenager with the $40 setup who knows what makes the fish in that spot bite. Fancy pans don't make you a good cook. But yet people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify the things they paid top dollar for as still being the best crap ever even when they fail them. Nobody expects stuff made at scale to be perfect 100% of the time but the owners of premium stuff sure act like that is the case. You see this sort of failure denialism with all sorts of premium products. People actively refuse to believe that something else, something cheaper, could have been equivalent or better for their use case.
- mnadkvlb 5y ago
  I will keep this comment as a favorite. Thank you. very few people dare admit to bad decisions. When you see someone open to admitting bad decisions, hire them if u can.

by hughrr 5y ago

callamdelaney 5y ago

I own a Tesla, have the base model 3 and didn't pay for full self driving. On motorways and A roads the self drive experience is reasonably adequate. Naturally, on any reasonably long journey there are dozens of times you'll have to take over from autopilot and steer around some corner or some hazard. It really doesn't bother me whether it gets better or they add full self driving. Charging your car isn't a big stinking problem, it's an inherent feature.

hughrr 5y ago
Model 3 is a much better proposition on features and price though.

pjc50 5y ago

> It makes him tell everyone he's happy but that's where it ends. He's got too much pride to tell the truth. This seems to be a very 21st century phenomenon; product marketing gets replaced by cult membership. You don't buy a Tesla to experience a great car, you buy Tesla to tell everyone how great the experience is.

IgorPartola 5y ago
It’s a very human problem from like 40k years ago. We evolved to belong to tribes and feel most comfortable in them. The difference is that with how mobile we are now, both physically and as far as our ability to communicate, we can now form tribes not based on our family and geographic location (which often times doesn’t fit us all that well) but based on what products we consume: cars we buy, video games we play, music we listen to, etc. These consumer tribes are exactly like every other tribe we have formed before, just look novel because of the focus of them. This is why you’ll see people talk about how “the Harley meet up guys are just the nicest people”. It’s only partially about the product, mostly about the sense of belonging. And before anyone calls this sad (which it might or might not be), consider that the alternative is either isolation by rejecting all forms of tribalism, or tribes formed around more harmful old school ideas (religious cults, violence-based tribes, tribes based on race/gender/etc.), or tribes we were born into and have no choice to leave because we can’t just buy the services of a farmer, a plumber, or a babysitter and have to rely exclusively on our tribe for those kinds of needs.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  There are alternatives that doesn't go as far as isolation or religion of course. You mention a great example yourself that shows how you can be extreme/religious for no good reason when a open alternative is clearly present: It's a worldwide phenomenon that motorcyclists in general wants to be open and inclusive. We wave to each other when we pass on the road, talk when we meet at gas stations and so on. But a Harley is not a motorcycle, it is a Harley. Most don't wave back, all frown if you try to talk to them if not out on your own Harley today but some Japanese bike and so on. Tesla and Apple users are very often in the same category of religious fanaticism for no good reason except brand loyalty. That is sad as one should be able to own a Harley, be part of a Harley crowd and not be religious about it but most (not all!) fall into this trap. A tribe that is divided because of some businesses PR is always sad and harmful.
  - IgorPartola 5y ago
    Heh. So I ride with mostly Harley guys though I don’t ride a Harley. One of the reasons we don’t wave back when riding as a group is that we use hand signals to communicate and waving looks like a left turn signal. As a result, we aren’t allowed to wave on group rides. Secondary thing is that motorcycling is just a larger and looser consumer tribe than Harley or Yamaha or Ducati riders. Not quite as large as motorcycles + trikes, which is still smaller than bikes, trikes, and scooters. To some degree it is turtles all the way down in terms of how exclusive vs inclusive you want to be. I personally don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with consumer tribes. The question is how does each one treat its members and newcomers and is it a healthy environment for everyone involved?
    - Dah00n 5y ago
      I can see how a group ride could see it like this but single Harley riders don't greet you back either (unless I'm on a Harley or something they in passing might think is a Harley). I'm guessing you are from the US, which I'm not, but I have never seen this in other bikers no matter the brand. Sure Ducati guys often hang out with eachother at a meet, as do other groups, but it's not like they don't greet other riders. Heck, I even wave (end get waved at) when I drive my Alfa Romeo by both other Alfa drivers but also people in classic cars (and a few Ducati riders even). Totally different cultures than Harley riders, which I think is sad.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>It makes him tell everyone he's happy but that's where it ends. He's got too much pride to tell the truth. Toyota frames rust out. KitchenAid gears strip (and half the stuff they put their name on is just badged garbage to begin with). Snap On tools break. LL Bean stuff wears our prematurely. Being in a "good school district" fails to magically make your kid successful. The guy with the $2k fishing setup gets out-fished by the teenager with the $40 setup who knows what makes the fish in that spot bite. Fancy pans don't make you a good cook. But yet people do all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify the things they paid top dollar for as still being the best crap ever even when they fail them. Nobody expects stuff made at scale to be perfect 100% of the time but the owners of premium stuff sure act like that is the case. You see this sort of failure denialism with all sorts of premium products. People actively refuse to believe that something else, something cheaper, could have been equivalent or better for their use case.

mnadkvlb 5y ago
I will keep this comment as a favorite. Thank you. very few people dare admit to bad decisions. When you see someone open to admitting bad decisions, hire them if u can.