8 ms·

No kidding. It's clear to me that protection at some level is provided following infection - which simply makes sense. You'll notice they say - we don't have e

No kidding. It's clear to me that protection at some level is provided following infection - which simply makes sense. You'll notice they say - we don't have enough data. Then data is incomplete. Then we can't really say because study was X / Y / Z. They ignore the MASSIVE difference in your chance of being infected if you are unvaccinated and have not been infected vs many other combos. Just treat folks who've been infected as vaccinated, they can get booster / variant shots with everyone else when the time comes.

johnchristopher 5y ago
I'd like to know the death rate of infected unvaccinated people who get covid again against vaccinated people who get covid and get sick.
- sgt101 5y ago
  According to this study it could be a long time before we know that - I think cov-19 in the presence of a non overwhelmed medical system armed with steroids and oxygen kills less than 2/100 infected folk so getting enough incidents in either of those arms of a trial is going to be hard work.
  - iso1210 5y ago
    The death rate for certain demographics (especially say over 70s) is far higher than 2-in-100. While some countries have high levels of vaccination - especially in those demographics - most don't. The UK is enterring a third wave, and has a high number of elderly people having been fully (2 shot, mainly AZ) vaccinated. Early indications are that those enterring hospitals now on the whole have not been fully vaccinated.
    - benjaminwootton 5y ago
      And for most people under 70, it's way under that, FWIW.
      - iso1210 5y ago
        It does suggest that people with 2 shots are unlikely to end up in hospital. I haven't seen enough data about the hospitalisations when adjusted for age+vaccines to draw any more conclusions. There are still many over 70s who haven't had any shots though. My (estranged) uncle and his mother-in-law haven't left the house for 18 months, he disinfects his food deliveries and leaves the post in a box for 3 days. He refuses to get the vaccine because he's worried about catching it. Chances are he won't end up in hospital either, but people like that could skew the cases as more data comes out to allow spurious claims from anti-vaxers (They might claim that 'before 2 in every 100 over 80s were going into hospital) , now it's only 1 in every 100 unvaccinated over 80s going in to hospital), because the chance of catching covid from the population still unvaccinated dwindles because of continued isolation
    - HPsquared 5y ago
      The infection fatality rate varies exponentially with age. A good rule-of-thumb is that for a given age group, the IFR of catching Covid is about the same as the all-cause mortality risk over one year of life. It just so happens that these two numbers are about the same, when looking at age groups. Edit: nicely presented here: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259 https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259
- murgindrag 5y ago
  I'd like to know the disability rate, which seems much higher than the death rate.
  - astrange 5y ago
    Yes, this and "long COVID" are quite underreported, and it's the much bigger risk. However, there is some evidence that getting vaccinated improves/cures long COVID.
phkahler 5y ago
>> You'll notice they say - we don't have enough data. Then data is incomplete. Then we can't really say because study was X / Y / Z. This is a weird trend these days. Medical science refuses to take an engineering approach to anything and only accepts statements based on controlled studies. That includes rejecting previous understanding of how immunity works in general. Early on when claims were made about HCQ, Zinc, or whatever, they were shot down as "not approved treatment" even though there were no approved treatments! The utter failure to recommend vitamin D supplements is another failure - we know deficiency weakens immune response, we know most (Americans) are deficient in the winter, it's a no-brainer but in their mind it was not "proven" so not even mentioned or recommended for anyone. The only pattern I see considering all cases like that is the underlying notion that people must not do anything for themselves.

johnchristopher 5y ago

I'd like to know the death rate of infected unvaccinated people who get covid again against vaccinated people who get covid and get sick.

sgt101 5y ago
According to this study it could be a long time before we know that - I think cov-19 in the presence of a non overwhelmed medical system armed with steroids and oxygen kills less than 2/100 infected folk so getting enough incidents in either of those arms of a trial is going to be hard work.
- iso1210 5y ago
  The death rate for certain demographics (especially say over 70s) is far higher than 2-in-100. While some countries have high levels of vaccination - especially in those demographics - most don't. The UK is enterring a third wave, and has a high number of elderly people having been fully (2 shot, mainly AZ) vaccinated. Early indications are that those enterring hospitals now on the whole have not been fully vaccinated.
  - benjaminwootton 5y ago
    And for most people under 70, it's way under that, FWIW.
    - iso1210 5y ago
      It does suggest that people with 2 shots are unlikely to end up in hospital. I haven't seen enough data about the hospitalisations when adjusted for age+vaccines to draw any more conclusions. There are still many over 70s who haven't had any shots though. My (estranged) uncle and his mother-in-law haven't left the house for 18 months, he disinfects his food deliveries and leaves the post in a box for 3 days. He refuses to get the vaccine because he's worried about catching it. Chances are he won't end up in hospital either, but people like that could skew the cases as more data comes out to allow spurious claims from anti-vaxers (They might claim that 'before 2 in every 100 over 80s were going into hospital) , now it's only 1 in every 100 unvaccinated over 80s going in to hospital), because the chance of catching covid from the population still unvaccinated dwindles because of continued isolation
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    The infection fatality rate varies exponentially with age. A good rule-of-thumb is that for a given age group, the IFR of catching Covid is about the same as the all-cause mortality risk over one year of life. It just so happens that these two numbers are about the same, when looking at age groups. Edit: nicely presented here: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259 https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259
murgindrag 5y ago
I'd like to know the disability rate, which seems much higher than the death rate.
- astrange 5y ago
  Yes, this and "long COVID" are quite underreported, and it's the much bigger risk. However, there is some evidence that getting vaccinated improves/cures long COVID.

phkahler 5y ago

>> You'll notice they say - we don't have enough data. Then data is incomplete. Then we can't really say because study was X / Y / Z. This is a weird trend these days. Medical science refuses to take an engineering approach to anything and only accepts statements based on controlled studies. That includes rejecting previous understanding of how immunity works in general. Early on when claims were made about HCQ, Zinc, or whatever, they were shot down as "not approved treatment" even though there were no approved treatments! The utter failure to recommend vitamin D supplements is another failure - we know deficiency weakens immune response, we know most (Americans) are deficient in the winter, it's a no-brainer but in their mind it was not "proven" so not even mentioned or recommended for anyone. The only pattern I see considering all cases like that is the underlying notion that people must not do anything for themselves.