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I do think the passenger should be weighed with their bags. Ultimately the total mass of the person and their belongings is what is being lifted into the air.

I do think the passenger should be weighed with their bags. Ultimately the total mass of the person and their belongings is what is being lifted into the air. If there is a dignified way to weigh both, I think that would be fairest.

aplummer 5y ago
So I should pay more for being 6’7”? Should your health insurance cost more since a number of chronic conditions are more likely to affect shorter people?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Yizahi 5y ago
  Ideally corporations should charge depending on the condition, and on top of that pro-social government should determine which charges are discrimination and which are not, and then compensate discriminating charge difference from the budget. This makes the system transparent and it prevents real incurred costs spilling into unintended areas. E.g. plane won't fly if it is loaded with fuel amount assuming all passengers are slender. Extra fuel is loaded and burned, but currently costs are spread out to other services of the airline. Instead they should be visible and managed specifically I think.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Yes because you cost more and flying is not an entitlement we guarantee everyone access to.
  - EForEndeavour 5y ago
    This attitude simply makes charging/not charging based on height or weight a factor on which airlines can compete for passengers.
- danielrpa 5y ago
  Should someone heavier (including being heavier due to being taller) pay more in gas/electricity for their car? We have been doing it all along...
- 542354234235 5y ago
  Yes, you should. You’re paying a business to move you and your stuff. It is not unreasonable for the business to charge based on the size and weight of what it is moving. Would it be unfair for a clothing company to charge based on the amount of material used to make a garment, since you would pay more than a smaller person? Or a restaurant to change based on the amount of food you eat, since you require more calories than a smaller person? You’re basically asking to be charged based on your subjective experience, not on the actual cost of the goods and services. Or more accurately, you’re asking for other people to pay for extra goods and services they aren’t using so you can have them for free.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - aplummer 5y ago
    > You’re basically asking to be charged based on your subjective experience, not on the actual cost of the goods and services. Or more accurately, you’re asking for other people to pay for extra goods and services they aren’t using so you can have them for free. Neither of those points are true, and you didn't address my question as to whether you're happy to pay more for health insurance, since it costs the insurer more.
    - 542354234235 5y ago
      I didn’t address it initially because it is clearly a ridiculous strawman argument to attempt to equate legally required and life save medical insurance to airline travel. But it is really going to make you mad when you find out that health insurance already sets premiums based on height. “Height by itself may also dictate your insurance rates to a small degree. That's because above or below-average heights can be linked to an increase in the risk of certain health conditions.” [1] >Neither of those points are true Well, they are, so I‘ll lay it out. Aplummer and James are on a two-person plane flying to Whereverville. James and his luggage weigh 150 lbs, Aplummer and his luggage weigh 300 lbs. It takes 50 gallons of fuel to transport the total 450 lbs. At $2.50 per gallon, the total is $125. So ”the actual cost of the goods and services” is 16.6 gallons ($41.66) for James, and 33.3 gallons ($83.33) for Aplummer. But Aplummer doesn’t want to pay $83.33. He says “So I should pay more for being 6’7”?” and says him and James should both pay $62.50, leaving James “to pay for extra goods and services they aren’t using so [he] can have them for free”. [1] https://quotewizard.com/health-insurance/health-insurance-rate-factors https://quotewizard.com/health-insurance/health-insurance-ra...
- bagacrap 5y ago
  at 6'3" I find myself at the limit of what a standard bilge class airline seat has room for. I'd imagine that at 6'7" you really need that business class or a bulkhead or exit row. So don't you already pay more?
- randyrand 5y ago
  Should a petite passenger have pay more because they commonly go on flights with heavier passengers? Someone has to pay. There’s no free lunch. Why make the lighter people pay for the heavier people?
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Because people generally don't like being nickel and dimed. Why should someone with 20 pounds of luggage pay the same amount as someone with 50 pounds of luggage? Why not charge per pound for the luggage? And the luggage is even weighed, whereas scales would need to be added to weigh passengers. And then let's talk about carry on bags, why are those free and why aren't they weighed? There are huge differences in carry on bag weight between passengers. Yet airlines don't charge per pound, they have cut offs which are pretty generous (e.g I've never been charged for extra weight on checkin luggage) and they don't even bother weighing carry on bags. Because as much as airlines will nickle and dime you, there are limits to all the little surcharges that people are willing to pay and to the complexity/inconvenience of the checkin process. But when it gets to bodyweight you have even more hurdles. Someone is in a wheelchair, should that be weighed? Well, no they have a disability. So if an obese passenger claims it's a medical condition, they will likely complain about discrimination. Yet carry on bags and checkin luggage can be weighed right now with little complaints about violating ADA. But airlines aren't willing to do even that.
NickNameNick 5y ago
Some airlines have started doing exactly that. I think it was a pacific island airline that did it first. However, I'm the same height as aplummer. Whilst I probably should lose some weight, my lowest healthy weight is inevitably going to be more than any smaller person, and that was never in my control. My clothes are also bulkier and heavier. While there are many small positive aspects to my size. Travel comfort is not one of them. It would be unreasonable to expect us to react positively to something that makes that worse.
- patrec 5y ago
  Do you also expect a discount at the super market because you inherently have a higher daily caloric need than someone petite?
  - NickNameNick 5y ago
    Not at all. That's a direct cost, and one I can choose how to control.
  - 0xfaded 5y ago
    No, society already compensates for this with higher salaries for tall people.
    - mc32 5y ago
      But that’s discounted if they’re not attractive.
7952 5y ago
The position of the weight in the aeroplane is important. A poorly balanced plane can have control difficulties. So this would only really work with carry-on baggage. Of course you could weigh the bags again separately later and work it out.
- gumby 5y ago
  I have been on scheduled flights where the flight attendants have had us switch seats to balance the plane. These have all been quite small regional airline flights (e.g. 1-2 layout)
  - cromka 5y ago
    This has happened to me twice recently with United and JetBlue, on regular-sized planes. I think I recall a recent FAA advisory for the airlines to start doing that.
throw20210610 5y ago
This is racist. Asian are smaller, black are bigger in general. This is targeting minorities.
- dtx1 5y ago
  This is racist. Some Asians are bigger some blacks are smaller. This is targeting minorities!
msh 5y ago
Then company profits should also be directly controlled so that they could not have profits that are excessive to expenses.
mc32 5y ago
One consequence of using combined weight (passenger + luggage) is people will trim their luggage and also long term instill better eating habits in people. Ultimately putting pressure on processed foods which is what hurts most people.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  "also long term instill better eating habits in people." if people won't change their diet because they barely fit in their car any more I don't think they will do it for slightly reduced plane fair
  - mc32 5y ago
    People will put up with physical discomfort over having to pay more (eg. economy seats). If one combined weight is 220lb/100kg vs another combined weight of 320/145. That’s quite a difference in fuel requirements to move mass from one place to another. I don’t see why not discounting it proportionally to increased cost + opportunity cost. It’s not a penalty if it’s just proportional to actual cost. They already discount children for theoretically weighing less than adults.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Demeaning behavior towards overweight people helps no one. Want to actually help instead? Try being their trainer or something.
  - showsover 5y ago
    How is weighing people and their luggage demeaning?
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
      It’s not. The person I responded to was.
pestatije 5y ago
If you do that you'll find out airlines will ask your weight when booking, and politely tell you the flight is fully booked if you are on the slim side. A seat is a seat, better to charge as much as possible for it.
- randyrand 5y ago
  Heavier passengers cost more to transport. the increased revenue comes with increased cost. I don’t see the connection to profit you’re making.
cafard 5y ago
Back in 1987, I was scheduled for a Midway Air flight from Dubuque to Chicago. They weighed my luggage, then they asked me what I weighed. They assigned my seat based on the second answer. As for dignified, I don't know what they'd have said if I'd picked out something way to small or big, say 120 or 250. It was mild weather though, and nobody was wearing clothes that would make it hard to guess weight fairly well.

aplummer 5y ago

So I should pay more for being 6’7”? Should your health insurance cost more since a number of chronic conditions are more likely to affect shorter people?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Yizahi 5y ago
Ideally corporations should charge depending on the condition, and on top of that pro-social government should determine which charges are discrimination and which are not, and then compensate discriminating charge difference from the budget. This makes the system transparent and it prevents real incurred costs spilling into unintended areas. E.g. plane won't fly if it is loaded with fuel amount assuming all passengers are slender. Extra fuel is loaded and burned, but currently costs are spread out to other services of the airline. Instead they should be visible and managed specifically I think.
kortilla 5y ago
Yes because you cost more and flying is not an entitlement we guarantee everyone access to.
- EForEndeavour 5y ago
  This attitude simply makes charging/not charging based on height or weight a factor on which airlines can compete for passengers.
danielrpa 5y ago
Should someone heavier (including being heavier due to being taller) pay more in gas/electricity for their car? We have been doing it all along...
542354234235 5y ago
Yes, you should. You’re paying a business to move you and your stuff. It is not unreasonable for the business to charge based on the size and weight of what it is moving. Would it be unfair for a clothing company to charge based on the amount of material used to make a garment, since you would pay more than a smaller person? Or a restaurant to change based on the amount of food you eat, since you require more calories than a smaller person? You’re basically asking to be charged based on your subjective experience, not on the actual cost of the goods and services. Or more accurately, you’re asking for other people to pay for extra goods and services they aren’t using so you can have them for free.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- aplummer 5y ago
  > You’re basically asking to be charged based on your subjective experience, not on the actual cost of the goods and services. Or more accurately, you’re asking for other people to pay for extra goods and services they aren’t using so you can have them for free. Neither of those points are true, and you didn't address my question as to whether you're happy to pay more for health insurance, since it costs the insurer more.
  - 542354234235 5y ago
    I didn’t address it initially because it is clearly a ridiculous strawman argument to attempt to equate legally required and life save medical insurance to airline travel. But it is really going to make you mad when you find out that health insurance already sets premiums based on height. “Height by itself may also dictate your insurance rates to a small degree. That's because above or below-average heights can be linked to an increase in the risk of certain health conditions.” [1] >Neither of those points are true Well, they are, so I‘ll lay it out. Aplummer and James are on a two-person plane flying to Whereverville. James and his luggage weigh 150 lbs, Aplummer and his luggage weigh 300 lbs. It takes 50 gallons of fuel to transport the total 450 lbs. At $2.50 per gallon, the total is $125. So ”the actual cost of the goods and services” is 16.6 gallons ($41.66) for James, and 33.3 gallons ($83.33) for Aplummer. But Aplummer doesn’t want to pay $83.33. He says “So I should pay more for being 6’7”?” and says him and James should both pay $62.50, leaving James “to pay for extra goods and services they aren’t using so [he] can have them for free”. [1] https://quotewizard.com/health-insurance/health-insurance-rate-factors https://quotewizard.com/health-insurance/health-insurance-ra...
bagacrap 5y ago
at 6'3" I find myself at the limit of what a standard bilge class airline seat has room for. I'd imagine that at 6'7" you really need that business class or a bulkhead or exit row. So don't you already pay more?
randyrand 5y ago
Should a petite passenger have pay more because they commonly go on flights with heavier passengers? Someone has to pay. There’s no free lunch. Why make the lighter people pay for the heavier people?
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Because people generally don't like being nickel and dimed. Why should someone with 20 pounds of luggage pay the same amount as someone with 50 pounds of luggage? Why not charge per pound for the luggage? And the luggage is even weighed, whereas scales would need to be added to weigh passengers. And then let's talk about carry on bags, why are those free and why aren't they weighed? There are huge differences in carry on bag weight between passengers. Yet airlines don't charge per pound, they have cut offs which are pretty generous (e.g I've never been charged for extra weight on checkin luggage) and they don't even bother weighing carry on bags. Because as much as airlines will nickle and dime you, there are limits to all the little surcharges that people are willing to pay and to the complexity/inconvenience of the checkin process. But when it gets to bodyweight you have even more hurdles. Someone is in a wheelchair, should that be weighed? Well, no they have a disability. So if an obese passenger claims it's a medical condition, they will likely complain about discrimination. Yet carry on bags and checkin luggage can be weighed right now with little complaints about violating ADA. But airlines aren't willing to do even that.

NickNameNick 5y ago

Some airlines have started doing exactly that. I think it was a pacific island airline that did it first. However, I'm the same height as aplummer. Whilst I probably should lose some weight, my lowest healthy weight is inevitably going to be more than any smaller person, and that was never in my control. My clothes are also bulkier and heavier. While there are many small positive aspects to my size. Travel comfort is not one of them. It would be unreasonable to expect us to react positively to something that makes that worse.

patrec 5y ago
Do you also expect a discount at the super market because you inherently have a higher daily caloric need than someone petite?
- NickNameNick 5y ago
  Not at all. That's a direct cost, and one I can choose how to control.
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  No, society already compensates for this with higher salaries for tall people.
  - mc32 5y ago
    But that’s discounted if they’re not attractive.

7952 5y ago

The position of the weight in the aeroplane is important. A poorly balanced plane can have control difficulties. So this would only really work with carry-on baggage. Of course you could weigh the bags again separately later and work it out.

gumby 5y ago
I have been on scheduled flights where the flight attendants have had us switch seats to balance the plane. These have all been quite small regional airline flights (e.g. 1-2 layout)
- cromka 5y ago
  This has happened to me twice recently with United and JetBlue, on regular-sized planes. I think I recall a recent FAA advisory for the airlines to start doing that.

throw20210610 5y ago

This is racist. Asian are smaller, black are bigger in general. This is targeting minorities.

dtx1 5y ago
This is racist. Some Asians are bigger some blacks are smaller. This is targeting minorities!

msh 5y ago

Then company profits should also be directly controlled so that they could not have profits that are excessive to expenses.

mc32 5y ago

One consequence of using combined weight (passenger + luggage) is people will trim their luggage and also long term instill better eating habits in people. Ultimately putting pressure on processed foods which is what hurts most people.

thatguy0900 5y ago
"also long term instill better eating habits in people." if people won't change their diet because they barely fit in their car any more I don't think they will do it for slightly reduced plane fair
- mc32 5y ago
  People will put up with physical discomfort over having to pay more (eg. economy seats). If one combined weight is 220lb/100kg vs another combined weight of 320/145. That’s quite a difference in fuel requirements to move mass from one place to another. I don’t see why not discounting it proportionally to increased cost + opportunity cost. It’s not a penalty if it’s just proportional to actual cost. They already discount children for theoretically weighing less than adults.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
Demeaning behavior towards overweight people helps no one. Want to actually help instead? Try being their trainer or something.
- showsover 5y ago
  How is weighing people and their luggage demeaning?
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    It’s not. The person I responded to was.

pestatije 5y ago

If you do that you'll find out airlines will ask your weight when booking, and politely tell you the flight is fully booked if you are on the slim side. A seat is a seat, better to charge as much as possible for it.

randyrand 5y ago
Heavier passengers cost more to transport. the increased revenue comes with increased cost. I don’t see the connection to profit you’re making.

cafard 5y ago

Back in 1987, I was scheduled for a Midway Air flight from Dubuque to Chicago. They weighed my luggage, then they asked me what I weighed. They assigned my seat based on the second answer. As for dignified, I don't know what they'd have said if I'd picked out something way to small or big, say 120 or 250. It was mild weather though, and nobody was wearing clothes that would make it hard to guess weight fairly well.