4 ms·

I just wish we would bring back car trains. I like driving. I want to drive. There are some incredible roads in the places I go to, and I want to drive on them.

I just wish we would bring back car trains. I like driving. I want to drive. There are some incredible roads in the places I go to, and I want to drive on them. However, I don’t care much for the long motorway drives through Europe that I need to do to take me to the interesting places. I want to drive my car on to a train in Kraków, hang out in the restaurant for several hours, and then drive off the train in Gdańsk. Surely this is cheaper and safer than autonomous driving anyway?

abraae 5y ago
I guess you're talking about a physical, actual train, but it would be cool to tack onto the back of a conga line of cars, and let some AI take over maintaining the gap and alignment with the vehicle in front, while grabbing a nap.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  I am indeed talking about an actual physical train. Many trains have restaurants, bedrooms, and bathrooms, and passengers can stretch their legs and walk around during their journey. That of course is not feasible with a car.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  It's called platooning I think. Mercedes have done a lot of work on it for long distance trucking.
tuukkah 5y ago
In Finland, it's popular to take your car in a train from Helsinki or Turku in the south to Rovaniemi in the north overnight. There are also cargo trains that carry trucks from the coastal harbours to inland railway stations.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  In Switzerland there are areas that are pretty much inaccessible unless you use the car-trains. Very convenient.
- Delk 5y ago
  For reference, that'd be around 800 km by road.
midasuni 5y ago
They run in several countries, but fundamentally they are very expensive (far more than $10 an hour)
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  My knowledge of them is from here[0] and I understand their availability to have generally declined over the past several years. [0]: https://www.seat61.com/motorail-trains.htm https://www.seat61.com/motorail-trains.htm
  - midasuni 5y ago
    Because they don’t justify the massive subsidies. Sleepers have had a little resurgence over the last year or two, but motorail demand is low and costs are high. Demand at market price is even lower. With a good motorway network and reliable cars people just aren’t willing to spend 5 times the price to go on a train. Even they were, it’s not sustainable. Far better to fly or train to a remote city and hire a car on arrival.
    - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
      I guess I'm surprised and dismayed that there isn't more of a market for it. Hire cars are a bland, pedestrian experience, and I'm sure quite many people would rather drive their own interesting car on interesting roads. Not everything needs to be a race to the bottom — there are still people who pay a premium for a better experience. I would think also that government subsidies for this kind of service are justified. Surely it's better for the environment and also safer.
      - kwhitefoot 5y ago
        > Hire cars are a bland, pedestrian experience, They don't have to be, although he alternatives are expensive. I rented a BMW 438i convertible for a couple of weeks about six years ago. Brilliant car and even though it was a lot more expensive than the usual boring vehicles I rent it was worth it.
miketery 5y ago
The density doesn’t make sense. Imagine all the congestion on highways, instead you are on a rail road line.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  My understanding was that congestion on highways is mostly caused by bad drivers. A train isn’t affected by people randomly braking or weaving around different lanes because they lack driving skill. A train also isn’t as affected by inclement weather.
  - VintageCool 5y ago
    Cars are also tremendously space inefficient. The Tesla Model 3 is nearly as big (93.8 sq ft) as 3 Queen Size beds (33.3 sq ft). There is the classic set of pictures showing how much space is needed to transport 60 people by bus, by bike, and by car. https://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-almost-everything.html https://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-alm... On my (pre-covid) morning commute to the office, most of the cars crawling along the highway had one person in them. The slowness is the result of people trying to merge into the highway, not "bad drivers". Another way to illustrate how much space cars take up is to look at suburban office parks. There will be a small building (usually 1 or 2 stories) surrounded and dwarfed by a parking lot. https://usa.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/04/Picture-24.png https://usa.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liberty+Lake,+WA/@47.6731508,-117.0865244,671m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x5361de8fa7347d63:0xc3a62004f5d8a26a!8m2!3d47.6743428!4d-117.1124241 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liberty+Lake,+WA/@47.67315...
    - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
      > The slowness is the result of people trying to merge into the highway, not "bad drivers". I stand by my point on "bad drivers". It's a well-studied phenomenon[0] and it's not a matter of opinion. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4m-OJosGaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4m-OJosGaI

abraae 5y ago

I guess you're talking about a physical, actual train, but it would be cool to tack onto the back of a conga line of cars, and let some AI take over maintaining the gap and alignment with the vehicle in front, while grabbing a nap.

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
I am indeed talking about an actual physical train. Many trains have restaurants, bedrooms, and bathrooms, and passengers can stretch their legs and walk around during their journey. That of course is not feasible with a car.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
It's called platooning I think. Mercedes have done a lot of work on it for long distance trucking.

tuukkah 5y ago

In Finland, it's popular to take your car in a train from Helsinki or Turku in the south to Rovaniemi in the north overnight. There are also cargo trains that carry trucks from the coastal harbours to inland railway stations.

jacquesm 5y ago
In Switzerland there are areas that are pretty much inaccessible unless you use the car-trains. Very convenient.
Delk 5y ago
For reference, that'd be around 800 km by road.

midasuni 5y ago

They run in several countries, but fundamentally they are very expensive (far more than $10 an hour)

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
My knowledge of them is from here[0] and I understand their availability to have generally declined over the past several years. [0]: https://www.seat61.com/motorail-trains.htm https://www.seat61.com/motorail-trains.htm
- midasuni 5y ago
  Because they don’t justify the massive subsidies. Sleepers have had a little resurgence over the last year or two, but motorail demand is low and costs are high. Demand at market price is even lower. With a good motorway network and reliable cars people just aren’t willing to spend 5 times the price to go on a train. Even they were, it’s not sustainable. Far better to fly or train to a remote city and hire a car on arrival.
  - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
    I guess I'm surprised and dismayed that there isn't more of a market for it. Hire cars are a bland, pedestrian experience, and I'm sure quite many people would rather drive their own interesting car on interesting roads. Not everything needs to be a race to the bottom — there are still people who pay a premium for a better experience. I would think also that government subsidies for this kind of service are justified. Surely it's better for the environment and also safer.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      > Hire cars are a bland, pedestrian experience, They don't have to be, although he alternatives are expensive. I rented a BMW 438i convertible for a couple of weeks about six years ago. Brilliant car and even though it was a lot more expensive than the usual boring vehicles I rent it was worth it.

miketery 5y ago

The density doesn’t make sense. Imagine all the congestion on highways, instead you are on a rail road line.

yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
My understanding was that congestion on highways is mostly caused by bad drivers. A train isn’t affected by people randomly braking or weaving around different lanes because they lack driving skill. A train also isn’t as affected by inclement weather.
- VintageCool 5y ago
  Cars are also tremendously space inefficient. The Tesla Model 3 is nearly as big (93.8 sq ft) as 3 Queen Size beds (33.3 sq ft). There is the classic set of pictures showing how much space is needed to transport 60 people by bus, by bike, and by car. https://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-almost-everything.html https://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-alm... On my (pre-covid) morning commute to the office, most of the cars crawling along the highway had one person in them. The slowness is the result of people trying to merge into the highway, not "bad drivers". Another way to illustrate how much space cars take up is to look at suburban office parks. There will be a small building (usually 1 or 2 stories) surrounded and dwarfed by a parking lot. https://usa.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/04/Picture-24.png https://usa.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liberty+Lake,+WA/@47.6731508,-117.0865244,671m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x5361de8fa7347d63:0xc3a62004f5d8a26a!8m2!3d47.6743428!4d-117.1124241 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liberty+Lake,+WA/@47.67315...
  - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
    > The slowness is the result of people trying to merge into the highway, not "bad drivers". I stand by my point on "bad drivers". It's a well-studied phenomenon[0] and it's not a matter of opinion. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4m-OJosGaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4m-OJosGaI