5 ms·

How much of the cost of a flight is fuel? What percentage of the mass being moved is passengers and their luggage be freight and the plane and fuel itself?

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> How much of the cost of a flight is fuel? Better question: what fraction of airline's margins could one explain with the variation of passengers' weights? Airlines' pre-tax margins are low [1]. Almost any factor, meaningless or meaningful, will look tiny relative to revenues or costs. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/225856/ebit-margin-of-commercial-airlines-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/225856/ebit-margin-of-co...
ddeck 5y ago
>How much of the cost of a flight is fuel? In terms of flight operating costs (FOC) per hour, about 16-36% according to the numbers for a 737-500 across for Continental/United/Southwest a few years ago. It's very dependent on utilization. Fixed ownership (i.e. depreciation/leasing) costs start to dominate at low utilization rates. Boeing 737‐500 FOC per block hour (~2017): Crew Fuel Maint. Ownership Hrs/day Continental $510 $430(19%) $ 651 $698 3.9 United $927 $487(16%) $1048 $510 4.3 Southwest $388 $537(36%) $ 251 $350 8.2 https://www.icao.int/mid/documents/2017/aviation%20data%20and%20analysis%20seminar/ppt3%20-%20airlines%20operating%20costs%20and%20productivity.pdf https://www.icao.int/mid/documents/2017/aviation%20data%20an...
WalterBright 5y ago
When I worked on the 757, it was 45%. The whole justification for the 757 was lower fuel burn due to a new wing design and new engines. The same for the 737MAX.
t0mas88 5y ago
Mid sized airliner roughly 90,000 lbs for the plane and equipment and 160 to 170,000 or so maximum take off weight depending on the variant. So a bit over half the weight is the plane itself the rest is fuel + people/freight.
- rhodozelia 5y ago
  A 777-300 has a maximum take off weight of 660,000 lbs of which 312,000lbs can be fuel. So an extra 100 lbs on every passenger is a drop in the bucket! https://courses.washington.edu/ie337/Boeing%20Tour%20Facts.pdf https://courses.washington.edu/ie337/Boeing%20Tour%20Facts.p...
  - manwe150 5y ago
    100 lbs * 500 passengers is 50k pounds or about 10% of the max takeoff weight quoted there. Those numbers seem likely to be over-estimates, but that seems not inconsequential? Edit: the plane holds 328-550 depending on seat configuration per the above link. I went with the upper end of that range per consideration of the “safety considerations” indicating it is the upper end of that range that is being reconsidered.
    - rhodozelia 5y ago
      A 777-300 holds 388 passengers, so 39,000 lbs extra would be significant. Is the average American 100 lbs heavier than the average person from the rest of the world? Probably nowhere near that.
      - gield 5y ago
        22 kg (48.6 lbs) according to [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight
  - t0mas88 5y ago
    A 777 is not a mide sized airliner, wide body aircraft for long haul have very different calculations because their flight can easily be over 12 hours long. The problem case for weight are the regional jets (E190 etc) and to a lesser degree the 737/A320 family. Those tend to be weight limited enough that you need to offload passengers or baggage if it's too warm outside.
  - AceyMan 5y ago

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> How much of the cost of a flight is fuel? Better question: what fraction of airline's margins could one explain with the variation of passengers' weights? Airlines' pre-tax margins are low [1]. Almost any factor, meaningless or meaningful, will look tiny relative to revenues or costs. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/225856/ebit-margin-of-commercial-airlines-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/225856/ebit-margin-of-co...

ddeck 5y ago

>How much of the cost of a flight is fuel? In terms of flight operating costs (FOC) per hour, about 16-36% according to the numbers for a 737-500 across for Continental/United/Southwest a few years ago. It's very dependent on utilization. Fixed ownership (i.e. depreciation/leasing) costs start to dominate at low utilization rates. Boeing 737‐500 FOC per block hour (~2017): Crew Fuel Maint. Ownership Hrs/day Continental $510 $430(19%) $ 651 $698 3.9 United $927 $487(16%) $1048 $510 4.3 Southwest $388 $537(36%) $ 251 $350 8.2 https://www.icao.int/mid/documents/2017/aviation%20data%20and%20analysis%20seminar/ppt3%20-%20airlines%20operating%20costs%20and%20productivity.pdf https://www.icao.int/mid/documents/2017/aviation%20data%20an...

WalterBright 5y ago

When I worked on the 757, it was 45%. The whole justification for the 757 was lower fuel burn due to a new wing design and new engines. The same for the 737MAX.

t0mas88 5y ago

Mid sized airliner roughly 90,000 lbs for the plane and equipment and 160 to 170,000 or so maximum take off weight depending on the variant. So a bit over half the weight is the plane itself the rest is fuel + people/freight.

rhodozelia 5y ago
A 777-300 has a maximum take off weight of 660,000 lbs of which 312,000lbs can be fuel. So an extra 100 lbs on every passenger is a drop in the bucket! https://courses.washington.edu/ie337/Boeing%20Tour%20Facts.pdf https://courses.washington.edu/ie337/Boeing%20Tour%20Facts.p...
- manwe150 5y ago
  100 lbs * 500 passengers is 50k pounds or about 10% of the max takeoff weight quoted there. Those numbers seem likely to be over-estimates, but that seems not inconsequential? Edit: the plane holds 328-550 depending on seat configuration per the above link. I went with the upper end of that range per consideration of the “safety considerations” indicating it is the upper end of that range that is being reconsidered.
  - rhodozelia 5y ago
    A 777-300 holds 388 passengers, so 39,000 lbs extra would be significant. Is the average American 100 lbs heavier than the average person from the rest of the world? Probably nowhere near that.
    - gield 5y ago
      22 kg (48.6 lbs) according to [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight
- t0mas88 5y ago
  A 777 is not a mide sized airliner, wide body aircraft for long haul have very different calculations because their flight can easily be over 12 hours long. The problem case for weight are the regional jets (E190 etc) and to a lesser degree the 737/A320 family. Those tend to be weight limited enough that you need to offload passengers or baggage if it's too warm outside.
- AceyMan 5y ago