5 ms·

> And before someone says "well, this is a gaming console, not a phone/computing device", I will say that it has apps (youtube/streaming services/etc.), it has

> And before someone says "well, this is a gaming console, not a phone/computing device", I will say that it has apps (youtube/streaming services/etc.), it has a web browser, and plenty other functionality not related to games. How much is the cut for those functionalities for MS?

filoleg 5y ago
You are welcome to look at the leaked documents[0], and they have a nice table showing cuts for all kinds of transactions on Microsoft Store. Looks like currently it is 30% for games, 15% for apps and app subscriptions, and they were exploring reducing the game-related cuts down to 12%. Microsoft spokesperson's reply to those leaked documents was "we have no plans to change the revenue share for console games at this time". Though I am not sure how much the 15% (microsoft cut for app-related purchases) vs. 30% (apple's cut, or 15% if the devs haven't made over $1 million in revenue this year or the year before) difference matters here, because I am struggling to figure out how the 15% vs. 30% difference makes one a monopoly. If that's the argument, then what's the magic number threshold that makes you a monopoly after you cross it? And how does Apple's reduced cut of 15% for devs with under $1mil in revenue play into that? 0. https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/2/22415712/microsoft-xbox-store-cut-epic-games-court-documents https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/2/22415712/microsoft-xbox-st...
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > If that's the argument, then what's the magic number threshold that makes you a monopoly after you cross it? Let's assume a very generous 5% for payment costs (credit cards are capped at 0.3% in the EU, but US cards with their rewards can run up to 5% in merchant fees, and god knows about the cost of doing business in other markets), another very generous 5% for CDN/hosting (data traffic isn't cheap, modern games easily run into triple digit GB sizes, and gamers are notorious for bringing down even the largest CDNs on delivery dates), and another 5% for profit and other costs (development), and you end up at something like 15%. Anything above that is ripping people off.
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    >US cards with their rewards can run up to 5% in merchant fees Americans so much love freedom for companies to fleece them off.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      The insidious thing that people never get taught or notice is that while, yes, you get 5% cashback as a customer, the store will eventually raise its prices by 5% to make up the higher CC fees.
      - torstenvl 5y ago
        Which still works out in favor of the debtor, because: (a) they reap the benefit in the meantime; and (b) rising prices benefit retail workers at the expense of those living off savings and investments
        mschuster91 5y ago
        > they reap the benefit in the meantime Yeah, but when the CC reward gets cancelled the store still will charge the old prices. > rising prices benefit retail workers at the expense of those living off savings and investments That assumes that retail will distribute extra profits to its employees... which many aren't known for, Walmart and McDonald's are infamous for paying such poor wages that its employees are entitled to food stamps ffs (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-top-employers-of-medicaid-and-food-stamp-beneficiaries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-...). Maybe, just maybe, the situation will change a bit now that corona has entirely uprooted labor markets, but even then it's a smoke debate - 15$/h is the lowest of the low, even adjusting for inflation would lead to a higher minimum wage!
        torstenvl 5y ago
        > 15$/h is the lowest of the low, even adjusting for inflation would lead to a higher minimum wage Adjusting the 1938 original minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 1794%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $4.73/hr. Adjusting the 1945 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 1383.6%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $5.93/hr. Adjusting the 1950 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 1008.1%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $8.31/hr. Adjusting the 1965 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 747.8%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $10.60/hr. Adjusting the 1975 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 396.4%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $10.42/hr. Adjusting the 1980 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 224.1%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $10.05/hr. Adjusting the 1990 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 104.3%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $7.76/hr. Adjusting the 1997 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 66.4%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $8.57/hr. Adjusting the 2008 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 24.0%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $8.12/hr. It appears that inflation of the dollar has not happened at quite the same pace as inflation of socialist demands. *shrug*

filoleg 5y ago

You are welcome to look at the leaked documents[0], and they have a nice table showing cuts for all kinds of transactions on Microsoft Store. Looks like currently it is 30% for games, 15% for apps and app subscriptions, and they were exploring reducing the game-related cuts down to 12%. Microsoft spokesperson's reply to those leaked documents was "we have no plans to change the revenue share for console games at this time". Though I am not sure how much the 15% (microsoft cut for app-related purchases) vs. 30% (apple's cut, or 15% if the devs haven't made over $1 million in revenue this year or the year before) difference matters here, because I am struggling to figure out how the 15% vs. 30% difference makes one a monopoly. If that's the argument, then what's the magic number threshold that makes you a monopoly after you cross it? And how does Apple's reduced cut of 15% for devs with under $1mil in revenue play into that? 0. https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/2/22415712/microsoft-xbox-store-cut-epic-games-court-documents https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/2/22415712/microsoft-xbox-st...

mschuster91 5y ago
> If that's the argument, then what's the magic number threshold that makes you a monopoly after you cross it? Let's assume a very generous 5% for payment costs (credit cards are capped at 0.3% in the EU, but US cards with their rewards can run up to 5% in merchant fees, and god knows about the cost of doing business in other markets), another very generous 5% for CDN/hosting (data traffic isn't cheap, modern games easily run into triple digit GB sizes, and gamers are notorious for bringing down even the largest CDNs on delivery dates), and another 5% for profit and other costs (development), and you end up at something like 15%. Anything above that is ripping people off.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  >US cards with their rewards can run up to 5% in merchant fees Americans so much love freedom for companies to fleece them off.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    The insidious thing that people never get taught or notice is that while, yes, you get 5% cashback as a customer, the store will eventually raise its prices by 5% to make up the higher CC fees.
    - torstenvl 5y ago
      Which still works out in favor of the debtor, because: (a) they reap the benefit in the meantime; and (b) rising prices benefit retail workers at the expense of those living off savings and investments
      - mschuster91 5y ago
        > they reap the benefit in the meantime Yeah, but when the CC reward gets cancelled the store still will charge the old prices. > rising prices benefit retail workers at the expense of those living off savings and investments That assumes that retail will distribute extra profits to its employees... which many aren't known for, Walmart and McDonald's are infamous for paying such poor wages that its employees are entitled to food stamps ffs (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-top-employers-of-medicaid-and-food-stamp-beneficiaries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-...). Maybe, just maybe, the situation will change a bit now that corona has entirely uprooted labor markets, but even then it's a smoke debate - 15$/h is the lowest of the low, even adjusting for inflation would lead to a higher minimum wage!
        torstenvl 5y ago
        > 15$/h is the lowest of the low, even adjusting for inflation would lead to a higher minimum wage Adjusting the 1938 original minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 1794%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $4.73/hr. Adjusting the 1945 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 1383.6%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $5.93/hr. Adjusting the 1950 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 1008.1%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $8.31/hr. Adjusting the 1965 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 747.8%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $10.60/hr. Adjusting the 1975 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 396.4%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $10.42/hr. Adjusting the 1980 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 224.1%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $10.05/hr. Adjusting the 1990 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 104.3%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $7.76/hr. Adjusting the 1997 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 66.4%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $8.57/hr. Adjusting the 2008 minimum wage for inflation (cumulatively, 24.0%) would lead to a 2021 minimum wage of $8.12/hr. It appears that inflation of the dollar has not happened at quite the same pace as inflation of socialist demands. *shrug*