4 ms·

I own a house in East Bay, and paying >$10k/yr of property tax. While I don't mind tax in principle, it greatly annoys me that I'm paying much more than my nei

I own a house in East Bay, and paying >$10k/yr of property tax. While I don't mind tax in principle, it greatly annoys me that I'm paying much more than my neighbors just because I bought it a few years ago. And why would my opinion change when I get older? Prop 13 won't do shit to lower my taxes, I'll have less income and still be paying through the nose, because the city needs money and half of its residents are paying virtually nothing. If anything, I'll be even crankier about the whole situation.

delaynomore 5y ago
>why would my opinion change when I get older? Your opinion might change if property price around East Bay continue to appreciate and your new neighbors are paying even more.
- rcpt 5y ago
  A pitch copied straight from pyramid scams.
krferriter 5y ago
It's a pyramid scheme, people newly entering the housing market radically subsidize the asset values of those who entered before them.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> And why would my opinion change when I get older? Prop 13 won't do shit to lower my taxes It will, in real terms, since the assessment increase limit is the lower of 2% or the rate of inflation each year, guaranteeing that over the long term the assessed value and tax go down in real terms. Which isn’t to say your opinion should change, just that the self-interest equation does.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  That's BS. If I pay $10k in property taxes(excl school taxes), that means I cannot invest that money into something more tangible. Thus depriving me of working investments to subsidize wealthier individuals is worse, than steadily increasing taxes.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    That taxes compete with other potential uses of money is obviously true, and equally obviously irrelevant to the discussion of whether Prop 13 will or will not lower your real tax bill over the time you own a home.
    - JAlexoid 5y ago
      That's the problem. Prop13 makes your taxes high upfront, with lower taxes later on. This is counter intuitive, when you want to encourage people to buy homes.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Prop13 makes your taxes high upfront, with lower taxes later on No, Prop 13’s rate limit makee your taxes low upfront — the 1% cap on nominal rates is far below the national median effective rate, and the nominal rate is before applying the effects of the assessment limits — and the limit on annual assessment increases to the lower of inflation or 2% makes it even lower later on. A lot of people focus on the second in isolation to say new home buyers subsidize existing owners in CA, but really both types of owners are subsidized by income and sales tax payers, its just new homeowners are slightly less subsidized. > This is counter intuitive, when you want to encourage people to buy homes. “Barely taxed now, and even less taxed later” does a very good job of encouraging people to want to buy homes in California, and also of discouraging them from wanting to sell homes in California, as evidenced by price trends. What it doesn't do is make homes affordable to buy, but then encouraging people to want to buy and making them affordable are goals that are inherently in some tension, given the effect of demand on price.

delaynomore 5y ago

>why would my opinion change when I get older? Your opinion might change if property price around East Bay continue to appreciate and your new neighbors are paying even more.

rcpt 5y ago
A pitch copied straight from pyramid scams.

krferriter 5y ago

It's a pyramid scheme, people newly entering the housing market radically subsidize the asset values of those who entered before them.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> And why would my opinion change when I get older? Prop 13 won't do shit to lower my taxes It will, in real terms, since the assessment increase limit is the lower of 2% or the rate of inflation each year, guaranteeing that over the long term the assessed value and tax go down in real terms. Which isn’t to say your opinion should change, just that the self-interest equation does.

JAlexoid 5y ago
That's BS. If I pay $10k in property taxes(excl school taxes), that means I cannot invest that money into something more tangible. Thus depriving me of working investments to subsidize wealthier individuals is worse, than steadily increasing taxes.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  That taxes compete with other potential uses of money is obviously true, and equally obviously irrelevant to the discussion of whether Prop 13 will or will not lower your real tax bill over the time you own a home.
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    That's the problem. Prop13 makes your taxes high upfront, with lower taxes later on. This is counter intuitive, when you want to encourage people to buy homes.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Prop13 makes your taxes high upfront, with lower taxes later on No, Prop 13’s rate limit makee your taxes low upfront — the 1% cap on nominal rates is far below the national median effective rate, and the nominal rate is before applying the effects of the assessment limits — and the limit on annual assessment increases to the lower of inflation or 2% makes it even lower later on. A lot of people focus on the second in isolation to say new home buyers subsidize existing owners in CA, but really both types of owners are subsidized by income and sales tax payers, its just new homeowners are slightly less subsidized. > This is counter intuitive, when you want to encourage people to buy homes. “Barely taxed now, and even less taxed later” does a very good job of encouraging people to want to buy homes in California, and also of discouraging them from wanting to sell homes in California, as evidenced by price trends. What it doesn't do is make homes affordable to buy, but then encouraging people to want to buy and making them affordable are goals that are inherently in some tension, given the effect of demand on price.