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California sold rights to pump water to farmers a century ago. The only way to legally undo that is to use eminent domain to purchase those rights back. Given
by kec 5y ago
California sold rights to pump water to farmers a century ago.
The only way to legally undo that is to use eminent domain to purchase those rights back. Given how productive and valuable the farm land is and how scarce water is those rights are now absurdly expensive… it’s an intractable problem.
- rektide 5y agothis is like one of those cities that sells a century long parking enforcement contact to pay the budget today. it's so so so far watching some misgovernance today be unammendable for a series of generations. personally I feel like there has to be some way to reassess. simply letting ancient decisions hold in pepetuity is not acceptable.
- xeromal 5y ago> simply letting ancient decisions hold in pepetuity is not acceptable. If ancient rights were ignored, it would shake the confidence in governments which could have unintended consequences.
- throwaway894345 5y agoAt worst it would make people think "wow, I can't trust the government to uphold agreements 100+ years out into the future if some information comes along to suggest that they shouldn't be upheld", which seems like... exactly what the public should think?
- xeromal 5y agoIf you're an american, what about the bill of rights, the right to a jury, the right to free speech, etc. Are those ancient agreements acceptable?
- twiddling 5y agoonly if the "wrong" people are in power /s
- throwaway894345 5y agoOf course I never said anything was “unacceptable” by virtue of its age.
- rektide 5y ago> it would shake the confidence in governments Deciding ancient laws, no matter how sucky, must all be iron-clad & that modernity/the future get no say is critically de-legitimizing, and in these cases seems to be headed quickly for cataclysm. Giving alive people some sovereign rights over the dead, as is the case with these water rights issues, seems necessary to maintain the basic social contract, to maintain the mandate of the people. Not fixing this seems deeply de-legitimizing.
- xeromal 5y agoI'm not saying that. I'm just saying those agreements / rights are theirs until a court decides they ain't. That is the proper process. We can't just ignore them completley.
- nathanaldensr 5y agoThe "basic social contract" in the United States is the United States Constitution along with individual state constitutions. Our system of law is not about making the determined mob of "alive" people happy right now. Higher-trust complex societies need things to change slowly to maintain that trust. If anything, I'm even more "de-legitimized" when your state steals my water rights.
- rektide 5y agoI find this intransigent view of what change might look like to be staggeringly repugnant. I think it represents a very staid, limited, unwilling view of how society ought be willing to adapt to conditions it finds itself in. calling modern situations a mob, discarding obvious crisis out of hand: that delegitimizes the trust your post claims is of such utmost importance. you talk about slow change, but there seems to be nothing at all that society can change. we seem perpetually bound in old grants & fantastic claims. the only suggestions I've heard from anyone are that society must bargain for its basic human rights to survive, in apocalypse situations, that these vast vast vast free grants have caused. color me very very very skeptical of your so called ideas of stability: I think you have it very wrong. there seem to be no rights given to the future, nothing reserved or allotted to the general population. I've little trust on your claim that that defines stability, that all new comers must fend for themselves amid a situation of dire need: caring only for the getsntocratic olds seems uncivil, ill governed, the very definition of illegitimate.