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I don’t understand this internet obsession with bottling water. Surely under the worst drought conditions bottling water has to be the very last thing to stop.

I don’t understand this internet obsession with bottling water. Surely under the worst drought conditions bottling water has to be the very last thing to stop. Literally water for humans to drink has to be a top priority.

Finnucane 5y ago
The business model of the bottled water industry is to take public water from limited local supplies and then distribute it globally, obviously at a significant profit to themselves, regardless of the actual need for that water.
- fb13 5y ago
  From what I understand, it's the opposite. I cannot get the same bottled water in the southeast as in the northeast, because it's bottled locally.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Oh, they just mad cuz the companies get a concession for cheap. That is it.
    - triceratops 5y ago
      Is that not a valid thing to be angry about?
      - mc32 5y ago
        Sure. Then just say I’m mad because these water bottling companies get the water concessions for cheap (and I don’t), instead of some other made up reason that might be less honest but a more sympathetic argument.
        triceratops 5y ago
        Arguably the reason they bottle the water is because of the cheap concessions. Without those, their profit margins are a lot slimmer and maybe the industry is much smaller, leaving more water out of bottles.
        kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
        They're selling the cheapest commodity in the world for more than the price of gasoline. Even with smaller margins they're still making money hand over fist.
    - darig 5y ago
      I guess free is cheap...
  - triceratops 5y ago
    It can be both. Consider "brand name" waters such as Voss or Perrier or S Pellegrino.
    - fb13 5y ago
      I thought about mentioning those companies, but I considered them to be too small of a market comparatively. For example, almost everyone buys 12-24 packs of their semi-locally bottled water, including national brands Dasani & aquafina that come from local bottling companies. I can't talk about the water issues in Fiji and France, but my guess is that it's <1% the total volume of bottled water consumed in any given area (outside LA or NYC of course).
  - fullstop 5y ago
    Sort-of related, but my local water supply is used for bottled water. They were drilling a new well which was not completed on time, but had already signed an agreement with the company for water rights. I was unable to wash my car, etc, but they could happily bottle water. We have a lot of limestone here, so our water is pretty good but has significant mineral content. Without a water softener my faucets would be ruined within years, caked full of minerals.
- specialist 5y ago
  Don't forget the waste. It takes ~3 units of water to bottle 1 unit. To say nothing of the carbon impact with packaging, shipping, disposal. To say nothing of the pollution with microplastics and estrogenics. Ad nauseum.
- Frost1x 5y ago
  Globally is the key word here. I'm not familiar with bottling industries in the south west, but in general, if you're taking a scarce resource from a locality and distributing it elsewhere, it should be clear how that can quickly become problematic. It's more of an issue if that scarce resource is as fundamental to survival like water. Ideally, the SW would be importing bottled water, not exporting water, because it's not something they have in abundance. If there are large commercial operations exporting water, they should be the first to be cut off from these operations. That seems very unlikely it would be permitted though. Personally, I've never wanted to live in this area (or at least make a large investment in a home/property) due to the scarcity of water coupled with growth. Nothing against the region, just seems like an unecessarily impractical region to live due to environmental factors and the climate models I've seen, at least for my comfort levels.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    There's plenty of drinking water if states manage their water sustainably. The biggest draw on water in most places is agriculture, not drinking water. There's no reason to pump aquifers dry and then use energy to transport water from elsewhere.
triceratops 5y ago
"Water for humans to drink" comes from the faucet. The bottled water industry shouldn't exist at all, other than as a niche product for areas hit by natural disasters, remote construction or work sites, and so on.
- twiddling 5y ago
  Then the negative externalities should be properly priced in.
  - derg 5y ago
    we all know that rarely if ever happens. market don't care.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      That's what "pricing in the negative externality" means: making the market care.
      - derg 5y ago
        and who exactly is doing the pricing here then?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        government, for example, by taxing the externality
        derg 5y ago
        so it's not the market naturally pricing it in then is it?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        No, and it couldn't be, which the point that you seem to be circling. Markets aren't self-governing--they don't set the rules that they abide by (including which externalities are priced in and which aren't)--that's a function of government.
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
It's exploitation of under-developed regions with ridiculous profit margins: Free water, cents for billions of PET bootles, packaged and sold for dollars. This environmental impact of plastic and indigenous water resource impact is completely avoidable. [0][1][2][3] [0] https://www.salon.com/2017/09/16/coca-cola-sucks-wells-dry-in-chiapas-forcing-residents-to-buy-water_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2017/09/16/coca-cola-sucks-wells-dry-i... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-n... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-200-dollars-water-plant-evart-michigan-flint-water-crisis-tap-water-a7975511.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-200... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-cola-increased-its-production-of-plastic-bottles-by-a-billion-last-year-say-greenpeace https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-col...

Finnucane 5y ago

The business model of the bottled water industry is to take public water from limited local supplies and then distribute it globally, obviously at a significant profit to themselves, regardless of the actual need for that water.

fb13 5y ago
From what I understand, it's the opposite. I cannot get the same bottled water in the southeast as in the northeast, because it's bottled locally.
- mc32 5y ago
  Oh, they just mad cuz the companies get a concession for cheap. That is it.
  - triceratops 5y ago
    Is that not a valid thing to be angry about?
    - mc32 5y ago
      Sure. Then just say I’m mad because these water bottling companies get the water concessions for cheap (and I don’t), instead of some other made up reason that might be less honest but a more sympathetic argument.
      - triceratops 5y ago
        Arguably the reason they bottle the water is because of the cheap concessions. Without those, their profit margins are a lot slimmer and maybe the industry is much smaller, leaving more water out of bottles.
        kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
        They're selling the cheapest commodity in the world for more than the price of gasoline. Even with smaller margins they're still making money hand over fist.
  - darig 5y ago
    I guess free is cheap...
- triceratops 5y ago
  It can be both. Consider "brand name" waters such as Voss or Perrier or S Pellegrino.
  - fb13 5y ago
    I thought about mentioning those companies, but I considered them to be too small of a market comparatively. For example, almost everyone buys 12-24 packs of their semi-locally bottled water, including national brands Dasani & aquafina that come from local bottling companies. I can't talk about the water issues in Fiji and France, but my guess is that it's <1% the total volume of bottled water consumed in any given area (outside LA or NYC of course).
- fullstop 5y ago
  Sort-of related, but my local water supply is used for bottled water. They were drilling a new well which was not completed on time, but had already signed an agreement with the company for water rights. I was unable to wash my car, etc, but they could happily bottle water. We have a lot of limestone here, so our water is pretty good but has significant mineral content. Without a water softener my faucets would be ruined within years, caked full of minerals.
specialist 5y ago
Don't forget the waste. It takes ~3 units of water to bottle 1 unit. To say nothing of the carbon impact with packaging, shipping, disposal. To say nothing of the pollution with microplastics and estrogenics. Ad nauseum.
Frost1x 5y ago
Globally is the key word here. I'm not familiar with bottling industries in the south west, but in general, if you're taking a scarce resource from a locality and distributing it elsewhere, it should be clear how that can quickly become problematic. It's more of an issue if that scarce resource is as fundamental to survival like water. Ideally, the SW would be importing bottled water, not exporting water, because it's not something they have in abundance. If there are large commercial operations exporting water, they should be the first to be cut off from these operations. That seems very unlikely it would be permitted though. Personally, I've never wanted to live in this area (or at least make a large investment in a home/property) due to the scarcity of water coupled with growth. Nothing against the region, just seems like an unecessarily impractical region to live due to environmental factors and the climate models I've seen, at least for my comfort levels.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  There's plenty of drinking water if states manage their water sustainably. The biggest draw on water in most places is agriculture, not drinking water. There's no reason to pump aquifers dry and then use energy to transport water from elsewhere.

triceratops 5y ago

"Water for humans to drink" comes from the faucet. The bottled water industry shouldn't exist at all, other than as a niche product for areas hit by natural disasters, remote construction or work sites, and so on.

twiddling 5y ago
Then the negative externalities should be properly priced in.
- derg 5y ago
  we all know that rarely if ever happens. market don't care.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    That's what "pricing in the negative externality" means: making the market care.
    - derg 5y ago
      and who exactly is doing the pricing here then?
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        government, for example, by taxing the externality
        derg 5y ago
        so it's not the market naturally pricing it in then is it?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        No, and it couldn't be, which the point that you seem to be circling. Markets aren't self-governing--they don't set the rules that they abide by (including which externalities are priced in and which aren't)--that's a function of government.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

It's exploitation of under-developed regions with ridiculous profit margins: Free water, cents for billions of PET bootles, packaged and sold for dollars. This environmental impact of plastic and indigenous water resource impact is completely avoidable. [0][1][2][3] [0] https://www.salon.com/2017/09/16/coca-cola-sucks-wells-dry-in-chiapas-forcing-residents-to-buy-water_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2017/09/16/coca-cola-sucks-wells-dry-i... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-n... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-200-dollars-water-plant-evart-michigan-flint-water-crisis-tap-water-a7975511.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-200... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-cola-increased-its-production-of-plastic-bottles-by-a-billion-last-year-say-greenpeace https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/02/coca-col...