5 ms·

It's political. In the uk, train drivers unions are one of the last meaningful unions left and the right wing government hates that. Also, London has a left w

It's political. In the uk, train drivers unions are one of the last meaningful unions left and the right wing government hates that. Also, London has a left wing mayor and a very good public transport system. The right wing government hate both the mayor (he's heir apparent to lead the party nationally) and the concept of public transport. That's also the real reason private train operators were bailed out but public TfL was been hung out to dry...

chrisseaton 5y ago
> he's heir apparent to lead the party nationally He’s not even an MP! He’s not allowed to be the leader.
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  I don't think he has to be? But he could easily be dropped into a safe seat. That's what they did for Boris in basically the same circumstances. Maybe Heir apparent is a bit strong? He's not defonate. But I can't think of anyone else with the name recognition...
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > I don't think he has to be? Of course he does. He has to be a commoner MP. > The leader and deputy leader of the Party shall be elected or re-elected from among Commons members of the PLP https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rule-Book-2019.pdf https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rule-Book-2... > But he could easily be dropped into a safe seat. Hmmm not sure how many of those they have available right now!
    - LatteLazy 5y ago
      Thanks! Agreed on the safe seats. Corbyn/Starmer has been pretty dire for Labour.
    - tialaramex 5y ago
      The rules are made by the party, and the party can change those rules. It has before and it will again. In this case however I think it's much more likely that if Khan is the choice, room will be found for Khan to win a byelection somewhere. Labour has plenty of London MPs still, they've struggled mostly with the North, progressive policies sell very well among socially aware people inside the M25 but aren't popular among people for whom the whole point was that the Unions ought to run the country. In lots of Labour seats in London it really wouldn't matter who you run. That's why Vauxhall's MP used to be Kate Hoey. Nice part of London, very gay friendly, many of the people there have never eaten meat, much less gone fox hunting and of course they opposed Brexit - and yet of course Kate was pro-hunting, pro-guns, anti-gay and fiercely favoured Brexit. Why did they elect her? Because it said "Labour" next to her name and they don't do research.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - vidarh 5y ago
    Sadiq Khan wouldn't even make most Labour members top 5. If you're going to look at mayors, Burnham is far more popular among Labour members. (but of course same issue: would need to become an MP again first)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tialaramex 5y ago
  The Party can have whatever rules it wants. If it should even prefer for its leader to be a Hampster, it can do that. As you might expect the political parties in the UK are organised differently according to their principles, so the Labour Party is an unincorporated association which only owns companies for purposes for which an informal group would be illegal (e.g. "People who come to our meetings" cannot legally own a plot of land, but "Labour Party Meetings Limited" could) while whatever the current Nigel Farage vehicle is (Reform? Brexit Party? Whatever he's calling it now) is a private company entirely owned and controlled by Nigel and his friends.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > The Party can have whatever rules it wants. Not sure what point you're trying to make. Yes they can have whatever rules they want... and the rule they want is that the leader must be a commoner MP.
  - vidarh 5y ago
    But Labours rules prevents him from being leader without being an MP. Labour could change that, but if they were to be changed, it would not be for Sadiq Khan. Maybe for Andy Burnham. Khan doesn't have enough support among Labour members. Realistically it won't be changed for either, as it would cause too many difficulties.
- thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
  Nor was the last Tory mayor. What ever happened to him?
GordonS 5y ago
> The right wing government I'd love to know by what scale you consider the British government "right-wing"?
- Mauricebranagh 5y ago
  The normal EU /ROW one :-) of course US right wingers consider Maggie Thatcher a hard leftie.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  I suppose Corbyn was the right wing candidate in the last general election then!?
  - GordonS 5y ago
    Eh, what are you on about? Who says there has to be a left wing and right wing candidate? Realistically, they are all pretty centrist - at their most radical, they lean slightly one way or the other.
Camas 5y ago
> hung out to dry £1.8 billion in loans/grants
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  Compared to 3.5bn in free money to private operators? Who were allowed to cut their services? When TFL lost 600m in the first 8 weeks? Yes, London got hung out to dry as usual.
  - Camas 5y ago
    > Compared to 3.5bn in free money to private operators? Sadly London is not yet more important than the rest of the UK combined.
    - LatteLazy 5y ago
      I didn't say it was, but giving us nothing, taking 3.5bn for yourself and then implying we're the ones with a chip on our shoulders? Maybe r/uk should kick us out as we're clearly holding you all back.
speapr 5y ago
Interestingly, this is a situation created by previous Conservative governments. When the national rail system was privatized, lots of smaller individual train operating companies were created, each with a franchise to run different lines. They are incentivized not to cooperate with each other, because taking over another franchise, if another operator fails, doubles the size of your business. So the employers were divided and the highly unionized employees were united, which meant that they did extremely well in negotiations. The membership overall are extremely loyal to their union leadership, because of how successful they've been in maintaining conditions and improving wages.
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  Yeah, that was a weird time in the uk. The tories sort of ran out of basic competence, even to rig the system to fit them. But then they went on "governing" for a few more years. See also "Black Wednesday" and other similar faff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

chrisseaton 5y ago

> he's heir apparent to lead the party nationally He’s not even an MP! He’s not allowed to be the leader.

LatteLazy 5y ago
I don't think he has to be? But he could easily be dropped into a safe seat. That's what they did for Boris in basically the same circumstances. Maybe Heir apparent is a bit strong? He's not defonate. But I can't think of anyone else with the name recognition...
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > I don't think he has to be? Of course he does. He has to be a commoner MP. > The leader and deputy leader of the Party shall be elected or re-elected from among Commons members of the PLP https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rule-Book-2019.pdf https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rule-Book-2... > But he could easily be dropped into a safe seat. Hmmm not sure how many of those they have available right now!
  - LatteLazy 5y ago
    Thanks! Agreed on the safe seats. Corbyn/Starmer has been pretty dire for Labour.
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    The rules are made by the party, and the party can change those rules. It has before and it will again. In this case however I think it's much more likely that if Khan is the choice, room will be found for Khan to win a byelection somewhere. Labour has plenty of London MPs still, they've struggled mostly with the North, progressive policies sell very well among socially aware people inside the M25 but aren't popular among people for whom the whole point was that the Unions ought to run the country. In lots of Labour seats in London it really wouldn't matter who you run. That's why Vauxhall's MP used to be Kate Hoey. Nice part of London, very gay friendly, many of the people there have never eaten meat, much less gone fox hunting and of course they opposed Brexit - and yet of course Kate was pro-hunting, pro-guns, anti-gay and fiercely favoured Brexit. Why did they elect her? Because it said "Labour" next to her name and they don't do research.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- vidarh 5y ago
  Sadiq Khan wouldn't even make most Labour members top 5. If you're going to look at mayors, Burnham is far more popular among Labour members. (but of course same issue: would need to become an MP again first)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tialaramex 5y ago
The Party can have whatever rules it wants. If it should even prefer for its leader to be a Hampster, it can do that. As you might expect the political parties in the UK are organised differently according to their principles, so the Labour Party is an unincorporated association which only owns companies for purposes for which an informal group would be illegal (e.g. "People who come to our meetings" cannot legally own a plot of land, but "Labour Party Meetings Limited" could) while whatever the current Nigel Farage vehicle is (Reform? Brexit Party? Whatever he's calling it now) is a private company entirely owned and controlled by Nigel and his friends.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > The Party can have whatever rules it wants. Not sure what point you're trying to make. Yes they can have whatever rules they want... and the rule they want is that the leader must be a commoner MP.
- vidarh 5y ago
  But Labours rules prevents him from being leader without being an MP. Labour could change that, but if they were to be changed, it would not be for Sadiq Khan. Maybe for Andy Burnham. Khan doesn't have enough support among Labour members. Realistically it won't be changed for either, as it would cause too many difficulties.
thrwyoilarticle 5y ago
Nor was the last Tory mayor. What ever happened to him?

GordonS 5y ago

> The right wing government I'd love to know by what scale you consider the British government "right-wing"?

Mauricebranagh 5y ago
The normal EU /ROW one :-) of course US right wingers consider Maggie Thatcher a hard leftie.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
LatteLazy 5y ago
I suppose Corbyn was the right wing candidate in the last general election then!?
- GordonS 5y ago
  Eh, what are you on about? Who says there has to be a left wing and right wing candidate? Realistically, they are all pretty centrist - at their most radical, they lean slightly one way or the other.

Camas 5y ago

> hung out to dry £1.8 billion in loans/grants

LatteLazy 5y ago
Compared to 3.5bn in free money to private operators? Who were allowed to cut their services? When TFL lost 600m in the first 8 weeks? Yes, London got hung out to dry as usual.
- Camas 5y ago
  > Compared to 3.5bn in free money to private operators? Sadly London is not yet more important than the rest of the UK combined.
  - LatteLazy 5y ago
    I didn't say it was, but giving us nothing, taking 3.5bn for yourself and then implying we're the ones with a chip on our shoulders? Maybe r/uk should kick us out as we're clearly holding you all back.

speapr 5y ago

Interestingly, this is a situation created by previous Conservative governments. When the national rail system was privatized, lots of smaller individual train operating companies were created, each with a franchise to run different lines. They are incentivized not to cooperate with each other, because taking over another franchise, if another operator fails, doubles the size of your business. So the employers were divided and the highly unionized employees were united, which meant that they did extremely well in negotiations. The membership overall are extremely loyal to their union leadership, because of how successful they've been in maintaining conditions and improving wages.

LatteLazy 5y ago
Yeah, that was a weird time in the uk. The tories sort of ran out of basic competence, even to rig the system to fit them. But then they went on "governing" for a few more years. See also "Black Wednesday" and other similar faff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday