5 ms·

Wait a minute. Why would Fastmail preemptively block Russian IPs if they don't have any legally vulnerable presence in Russia? Just to deny Roskomnadzor the joy

by ilammy 5y ago

Wait a minute. Why would Fastmail preemptively block Russian IPs if they don't have any legally vulnerable presence in Russia? Just to deny Roskomnadzor the joy? There is Russian proverb that aptly describes such behavior: "назло маме отморожу уши" (cut off your nose to spite your face). > What you can do if you're affected > - Talk to Roskomsvoboda: a digital rights advocacy organization. I like when private companies tell their customers what politics they should engage in.

kojoru 5y ago
> block signups for all IP addresses we identify as coming from within Russia I think they hope that this way they will not be blocked and thus the existing customers can keep connecting indefinitely.
saba2008 5y ago
>Just to deny Roskomnadzor the joy? No, to minimize damage by calming down proverbial monkey with a grenade. Webmail, imap & registration blocking is trivial to avoid. MX servers ending up in some blocklist might cause much more problems.
- ilammy 5y ago
  Understandable from this point of view -- with Internet being a shared resource -- but a strange concession nevertheless. Every participant of the Internet would end up blocking Russia to reduce the chance of some Russian official doing something stupid, hoping that they see website/email/torrents inaccessible and go bother someone else. Oh well, that's what politics and power games are all about.
hvis 5y ago
> I like when private companies tell their customers what politics they should engage in. They didn't tell you you should do it. Just that there aren't many other options.
Sebb767 5y ago
> I like when private companies tell their customers what politics they should engage in. Well, if they can't provide a service or are having problems doing so for legal reason, it's only sensible to ask their customers to lobby for a better legal framework if they wish to receive that service. It's a problem (IMO) if what they ask for is unrelated to their business, but quite a few people would disagree with that, as well; especially if they fight for something they deem necessary.
- ZoomZoomZoom 5y ago
  > ask their customers to lobby for a better legal framework Do you understand the absurd level of naïvete of this position?
  - Volundr 5y ago
    I genuinely don't. Can you explain it to me?
    - ZoomZoomZoom 5y ago
      First of all, you're a service operator, political activity of your customers is not your business. Secondly, lobbying doesn't exist in countries with no political representation. The only political activity available in such countries are activism (not of the bureaucratic type) and sabotage, all severely punishable.
      - Sebb767 5y ago
        > First of all, you're a service operator, political activity of your customers is not your business. Yes, but they're not asking about it. They're just saying "we can't provide this service for this reason; if you want to use this, we need help with this law". I don't see anything unreasonable there. Of course, one could go the Google way and say "No service for you, no reason why, your questions will be ignored", but I think this is quite an unreasonable demand. It's not like someone is forced to lobby for you, they just say why and what to change. > Secondly, lobbying doesn't exist in countries with no political representation. The only political activity available in such countries are activism (not of the bureaucratic type) and sabotage, all severely punishable. Lobbying was meant in the farthest sense in my original comment. Still, I don't see why they should not name a reason and/or course of action despite this. "We can't service you, come cry with us in the corner" is really not something to put on your website.
jrochkind1 5y ago
A sufficiently powerful state actor can find ways to penalize you, harm your company, or make the lives of principals or employees terrible even if you don't think you have a legally vulnerable presence in their jurisdiction. Just ask the USA! I would imagine their lawyers recommended it. I too would be curious to see the legal memo, but I'm not surprised that a company would take this course, it does not seem unreasonable to me.
detritus 5y ago
O/T > There is Russian proverb that aptly describes such behavior: "назло маме отморожу уши" (cut off your nose to spite your face). Curious to finally learn its origin, I had a Google - particularly as the phrase popped into mind this morning on my walk to work. It Doesn't appear to be of Russian origin, per se. Certainly, It was something I heard a fair few times coming out of the mouths of Scottish family when I was younger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_...
- andrewshadura 5y ago
  The Russian phrase has a different literal meaning though. ‘I’m going to freeze my eats to spite my mum’ which refers to mothers insisting their kids wear warm hats in winter.
  - boruto 5y ago
    Ears* For anyone thinking what is eats in Russian.
    - andrewshadura 5y ago
      Thanks, 'r' → 't' is a very easy to make typo :)

by ilammy 5y ago

kojoru 5y ago

> block signups for all IP addresses we identify as coming from within Russia I think they hope that this way they will not be blocked and thus the existing customers can keep connecting indefinitely.

saba2008 5y ago

>Just to deny Roskomnadzor the joy? No, to minimize damage by calming down proverbial monkey with a grenade. Webmail, imap & registration blocking is trivial to avoid. MX servers ending up in some blocklist might cause much more problems.

ilammy 5y ago
Understandable from this point of view -- with Internet being a shared resource -- but a strange concession nevertheless. Every participant of the Internet would end up blocking Russia to reduce the chance of some Russian official doing something stupid, hoping that they see website/email/torrents inaccessible and go bother someone else. Oh well, that's what politics and power games are all about.

hvis 5y ago

> I like when private companies tell their customers what politics they should engage in. They didn't tell you you should do it. Just that there aren't many other options.

Sebb767 5y ago

> I like when private companies tell their customers what politics they should engage in. Well, if they can't provide a service or are having problems doing so for legal reason, it's only sensible to ask their customers to lobby for a better legal framework if they wish to receive that service. It's a problem (IMO) if what they ask for is unrelated to their business, but quite a few people would disagree with that, as well; especially if they fight for something they deem necessary.

ZoomZoomZoom 5y ago
> ask their customers to lobby for a better legal framework Do you understand the absurd level of naïvete of this position?
- Volundr 5y ago
  I genuinely don't. Can you explain it to me?
  - ZoomZoomZoom 5y ago
    First of all, you're a service operator, political activity of your customers is not your business. Secondly, lobbying doesn't exist in countries with no political representation. The only political activity available in such countries are activism (not of the bureaucratic type) and sabotage, all severely punishable.
    - Sebb767 5y ago
      > First of all, you're a service operator, political activity of your customers is not your business. Yes, but they're not asking about it. They're just saying "we can't provide this service for this reason; if you want to use this, we need help with this law". I don't see anything unreasonable there. Of course, one could go the Google way and say "No service for you, no reason why, your questions will be ignored", but I think this is quite an unreasonable demand. It's not like someone is forced to lobby for you, they just say why and what to change. > Secondly, lobbying doesn't exist in countries with no political representation. The only political activity available in such countries are activism (not of the bureaucratic type) and sabotage, all severely punishable. Lobbying was meant in the farthest sense in my original comment. Still, I don't see why they should not name a reason and/or course of action despite this. "We can't service you, come cry with us in the corner" is really not something to put on your website.

jrochkind1 5y ago

A sufficiently powerful state actor can find ways to penalize you, harm your company, or make the lives of principals or employees terrible even if you don't think you have a legally vulnerable presence in their jurisdiction. Just ask the USA! I would imagine their lawyers recommended it. I too would be curious to see the legal memo, but I'm not surprised that a company would take this course, it does not seem unreasonable to me.

detritus 5y ago

O/T > There is Russian proverb that aptly describes such behavior: "назло маме отморожу уши" (cut off your nose to spite your face). Curious to finally learn its origin, I had a Google - particularly as the phrase popped into mind this morning on my walk to work. It Doesn't appear to be of Russian origin, per se. Certainly, It was something I heard a fair few times coming out of the mouths of Scottish family when I was younger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_...

andrewshadura 5y ago
The Russian phrase has a different literal meaning though. ‘I’m going to freeze my eats to spite my mum’ which refers to mothers insisting their kids wear warm hats in winter.
- boruto 5y ago
  Ears* For anyone thinking what is eats in Russian.
  - andrewshadura 5y ago
    Thanks, 'r' → 't' is a very easy to make typo :)