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Totally. "German efficiency" is great marketing, but it's completely false. *edit: "completely false" isn't helpful here. The stereotype of German efficiency

Totally. "German efficiency" is great marketing, but it's completely false. *edit: "completely false" isn't helpful here. The stereotype of German efficiency is based on centuries old reputation, but not really representative of present day Germans. https://www.dw.com/en/german-efficiency-the-roots-of-a-stereotype/a-56976234 https://www.dw.com/en/german-efficiency-the-roots-of-a-stere...

sambe 5y ago
I'm not sure about "completely false". The article is mostly about the history of the stereotype, and ends with a couple of examples of things that were not as efficient as they could have been. I don't think anybody is claiming perfect efficiency.
- pistoriusp 5y ago
  Agree, "completely false" is a stretch on my part, but stereotypes are broad and mostly unhelpful, and this was a response to that. Maybe a better way to express it is: The stereotype of German efficiency is based on centuries old reputation, but not really representative of present day Germans.
  - JauntyHatAngle 5y ago
    I don't see any evidence you've provided to show present day Germans are not efficient as a tendency. Anecdotally, from working and living in Germany, I've very much noticed that Germans are better with time management, and work shorter hours and get more done compared with my home country (Australia). I'd be surprised to see contrary evidence, though it's certainly a possibility. But the article you linked does not appear to demonstrate much of substance in terms of present day productivity. Stereotypes can be damaging, sure, but when discussing certain aspects of a culture they can be true and based on cultural norms. I don't think we should broadly dismiss them when used in the right context, and not in a discriminatory fashion.
    - pistoriusp 5y ago
      Right, this sort of thing is difficult because it's not evidence based. It's entirely subjective and anecdotal as compared to your past experiences in Australia, or mine in my own home country. You come from a country where trains are ALWAYS VERY LATE, Germany is efficient because the trains are just a little late. OR You come from a country where the trains are ALWAYS ON TIME, Germany is inefficient because the trains are just a little late. What I do think is interesting is that people think German's are efficient. Where does that come from? That's what the article is about.
      - JauntyHatAngle 5y ago
        To be clear, I've looked at these assumptions before as a comparison, and from the sources I read at the time, Germany did have less hours compared to Australia, by a lot. Social studies have too many variables to strongly conclude exactly why, and I'm not coming out with great sources here (om phone), but it does appear that Germany works far less than Australia, US, Mexico etc. https://www.instarem.com/blog/are-you-working-more-than-you-should/ https://www.instarem.com/blog/are-you-working-more-than-you-... Some of it is likely wealth. But some of it is definitely cultural attitudes to work.
      - nobodyandproud 5y ago
        Modern Spain has a problem of workers overworking, if I recall.
    - Bayart 5y ago
      From working with Germans, I have not noticed any real difference in work patterns or efficiency compared to my home country (France). I doubt there's much variance accross Europe as a whole. It seems their reputation in that respect is empty. Though I've notice cultural traits that do have some reality behind it (being sticklers for rules).
      - verst 5y ago
        As a German living outside of Germany for 15 years I have an interesting perspective on this: The rule-following in a work setting is all about risk mitigation and rules tend to help with that. Similarly for following established processes. I know this is pretty annoying but at least I'd argue the status of work is transparent and the outcome reliable (even if it may take a long time because too many hypotheticals were considered). The unstructured working style of the US can certainly drive a German a bit crazy at times :) In a social setting rules are also enforced to ensure that you don't negatively impact the personal enjoyment of others. For example, no mowing your lawn on Sundays so everyone can enjoy a quiet peaceful day. No talking loudly at your table in a restaurant so you don't bother the other diners etc Compared to the US I find Germans and French to be fairly similar with the difference being that French are more relaxed in attitude but definitely complain even more than Germans haha
morelisp 5y ago
My feeling as a foreigner in Germany is that in some ways it's its own curse. Germany does still have the economic and political structures to rise to meet the stereotype. But at the same time the myth means people in charge often assume said "efficiency" will just magically happen without anyone being responsible or putting in effort.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
weiliddat 5y ago
The most efficient thing in Germany is the supermarket checkout, and I don't mean it in a sarcastic/joking manner.
- pistoriusp 5y ago
  Actually not. German supermarkets use multiple queues for multiple cashiers. Studies have shown that a single queue feeding multiple cashiers is the most efficient method. A single queue feeding 3 cashiers is 3x faster than 3 single queues: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204770404577082933921432686 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204770404577082...
  - weiliddat 5y ago
    I meant it in a sense of the cashiers’ speed in checking items. Do you know why German supermarkets don’t use the single queue multiple cashiers system?

sambe 5y ago

I'm not sure about "completely false". The article is mostly about the history of the stereotype, and ends with a couple of examples of things that were not as efficient as they could have been. I don't think anybody is claiming perfect efficiency.

pistoriusp 5y ago
Agree, "completely false" is a stretch on my part, but stereotypes are broad and mostly unhelpful, and this was a response to that. Maybe a better way to express it is: The stereotype of German efficiency is based on centuries old reputation, but not really representative of present day Germans.
- JauntyHatAngle 5y ago
  I don't see any evidence you've provided to show present day Germans are not efficient as a tendency. Anecdotally, from working and living in Germany, I've very much noticed that Germans are better with time management, and work shorter hours and get more done compared with my home country (Australia). I'd be surprised to see contrary evidence, though it's certainly a possibility. But the article you linked does not appear to demonstrate much of substance in terms of present day productivity. Stereotypes can be damaging, sure, but when discussing certain aspects of a culture they can be true and based on cultural norms. I don't think we should broadly dismiss them when used in the right context, and not in a discriminatory fashion.
  - pistoriusp 5y ago
    Right, this sort of thing is difficult because it's not evidence based. It's entirely subjective and anecdotal as compared to your past experiences in Australia, or mine in my own home country. You come from a country where trains are ALWAYS VERY LATE, Germany is efficient because the trains are just a little late. OR You come from a country where the trains are ALWAYS ON TIME, Germany is inefficient because the trains are just a little late. What I do think is interesting is that people think German's are efficient. Where does that come from? That's what the article is about.
    - JauntyHatAngle 5y ago
      To be clear, I've looked at these assumptions before as a comparison, and from the sources I read at the time, Germany did have less hours compared to Australia, by a lot. Social studies have too many variables to strongly conclude exactly why, and I'm not coming out with great sources here (om phone), but it does appear that Germany works far less than Australia, US, Mexico etc. https://www.instarem.com/blog/are-you-working-more-than-you-should/ https://www.instarem.com/blog/are-you-working-more-than-you-... Some of it is likely wealth. But some of it is definitely cultural attitudes to work.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      Modern Spain has a problem of workers overworking, if I recall.
  - Bayart 5y ago
    From working with Germans, I have not noticed any real difference in work patterns or efficiency compared to my home country (France). I doubt there's much variance accross Europe as a whole. It seems their reputation in that respect is empty. Though I've notice cultural traits that do have some reality behind it (being sticklers for rules).
    - verst 5y ago
      As a German living outside of Germany for 15 years I have an interesting perspective on this: The rule-following in a work setting is all about risk mitigation and rules tend to help with that. Similarly for following established processes. I know this is pretty annoying but at least I'd argue the status of work is transparent and the outcome reliable (even if it may take a long time because too many hypotheticals were considered). The unstructured working style of the US can certainly drive a German a bit crazy at times :) In a social setting rules are also enforced to ensure that you don't negatively impact the personal enjoyment of others. For example, no mowing your lawn on Sundays so everyone can enjoy a quiet peaceful day. No talking loudly at your table in a restaurant so you don't bother the other diners etc Compared to the US I find Germans and French to be fairly similar with the difference being that French are more relaxed in attitude but definitely complain even more than Germans haha

morelisp 5y ago

My feeling as a foreigner in Germany is that in some ways it's its own curse. Germany does still have the economic and political structures to rise to meet the stereotype. But at the same time the myth means people in charge often assume said "efficiency" will just magically happen without anyone being responsible or putting in effort.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

weiliddat 5y ago

The most efficient thing in Germany is the supermarket checkout, and I don't mean it in a sarcastic/joking manner.

pistoriusp 5y ago
Actually not. German supermarkets use multiple queues for multiple cashiers. Studies have shown that a single queue feeding multiple cashiers is the most efficient method. A single queue feeding 3 cashiers is 3x faster than 3 single queues: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204770404577082933921432686 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204770404577082...
- weiliddat 5y ago
  I meant it in a sense of the cashiers’ speed in checking items. Do you know why German supermarkets don’t use the single queue multiple cashiers system?