8 ms·
Oh yes, we like to do that. Which is why we also need 14 years to build a new, medium sized airport in the capital.
by hutzlibu 5y ago
Oh yes, we like to do that.
Which is why we also need 14 years to build a new, medium sized airport in the capital.
- pjmlp 5y agoCome around NRW, there are a couple of highways that are about the same age and still aren't finished. :)
- bipson 5y agoCome around to Vorarlberg, Austria - where we talk about building a Highway in the 70ies or 80ies and never even start building it (all with official planning and studies and resident participation and environmental evaluations and public voting and discussions on the suggested variants). It has become a well known joke in the area. AFAIK we still don't know where it will be built, but there has been some progress... EDIT: They agreed upon where! But they don't know when and holding another forum due to public outcry over the chosen path... sigh. Meanwhile, Switzerland built the connection ~40 years ago [1] [1] https://goo.gl/maps/xNEp622mFP73Bewy5 https://goo.gl/maps/xNEp622mFP73Bewy5
- dao- 5y agoThe potential upside of delaying highway construction by a few decades is that you could, in theory, reconsider whether it's still a good idea. Of course that's usually not what's going to happen, and most likely the project will be pushed through anyway when there's hardly any public support left for it, as with Berlin's infamous A100 extension cutting through the city.
- bipson 5y agoOh, I"m all for not building highways at all and pushing the alternatives (e.g. public transport, cargo on rails). But this is a special situation, a really small gap between the Swiss highway and the Austrian/German highway, so transit had to go through the villages and clogging up everything at the bottlenecks along the border (or in Höchst, Hard, Bregenz, Lustenau, Hohenems, Feldkirch etc.)
- wongarsu 5y agoIt looks like they have to bridge 5km/3mi? Sure, there's one bridge involved, but that's an awfully short distance to plan for 40 years.
- bipson 5y agoAt the narrowest point it would be ~2km, but this variant has not been considered for years... The variant that (at the time) is supposed to be built would be 8.6km.
- pjmlp 5y agoI guess burocracy is the same everywhere.
- xcambar 5y agoWhich also opened right on time before the pandemics, so that it feels huge since there was almost zero circulation.
- fnord123 5y agoDo you mean circulation as in air-flow? Or circulation as in traffic? I don't know about German but French speakers will often use circulation for traffic because it's a false friend.
- morelisp 5y agoI suspect in this case it's a false friend - ironically one of the major problems blocking the opening of the airport was actually zero (air) circulation. Several engineering and electronics companies, led by the German giants Siemens and Bosch, struggled to retain control over the complex fire protection system that included 3,000 fire doors, 65,000 sprinklers, thousands of smoke detectors, a labyrinth of smoke evacuation ducts, and the equivalent of 55 miles of cables. “Our part, the detection of hot air or smoke ... is functioning,” says Thilo Resenhoeft, a Bosch spokesman. “The responsibility for the dysfunction lies with somebody else.” Siemens spokesman Oliver Santen confirms that the company was originally responsible for building the “automated fire protection facility” and “the control unit for fresh-air circulation.” Testing in 2013 “showed the need for reworking part of the system,” he says. Santen declines to attribute responsibility other than to say that Siemens is “responsible for the reconstruction of the fresh-air circulation system.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-07-23/how-berlin-s-futuristic-airport-became-a-6-billion-embarrassment https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-07-23/how-berli... (The issue was not fixed until 2019. Quite disappointed, we didn't even get a Murder Horse out of it.)
- xcambar 5y agoAs in traffic. And yes, I'm French. Damned, I am démasqué.
- myspy 5y agoOh, I didn't know that it has finally opened. Good foresight by Bosch.
- NeuroneNetwork 5y agoWhat about cost ? :D
- pistoriusp 5y agoTotally. "German efficiency" is great marketing, but it's completely false. *edit: "completely false" isn't helpful here. The stereotype of German efficiency is based on centuries old reputation, but not really representative of present day Germans. https://www.dw.com/en/german-efficiency-the-roots-of-a-stereotype/a-56976234 https://www.dw.com/en/german-efficiency-the-roots-of-a-stere...
- sambe 5y agoI'm not sure about "completely false". The article is mostly about the history of the stereotype, and ends with a couple of examples of things that were not as efficient as they could have been. I don't think anybody is claiming perfect efficiency.
- pistoriusp 5y agoAgree, "completely false" is a stretch on my part, but stereotypes are broad and mostly unhelpful, and this was a response to that. Maybe a better way to express it is: The stereotype of German efficiency is based on centuries old reputation, but not really representative of present day Germans.
- JauntyHatAngle 5y agoI don't see any evidence you've provided to show present day Germans are not efficient as a tendency. Anecdotally, from working and living in Germany, I've very much noticed that Germans are better with time management, and work shorter hours and get more done compared with my home country (Australia). I'd be surprised to see contrary evidence, though it's certainly a possibility. But the article you linked does not appear to demonstrate much of substance in terms of present day productivity. Stereotypes can be damaging, sure, but when discussing certain aspects of a culture they can be true and based on cultural norms. I don't think we should broadly dismiss them when used in the right context, and not in a discriminatory fashion.
- pistoriusp 5y ago
- conjectures 5y ago14 years? Rapid. Brits have spent 14 years on planning permission for Heathrow expansion :D
- oblio 5y agoIt's fun to point at Berlin Brandenburg and laugh, but it's not a medium sized airport. 2 runways, 3 terminals, room for expansion for 2 more terminals. Capacity for 27 million passengers per year, going up to 50 million once expanded. Compared to the absolute largest airports in the world (around 100 million passengers per year), yes, it's "medium". But it would be in the top 10 airports in Europe and still something like top 50 in the world, over time.
- carlmr 5y agoNow we're working on restricting short distance air travel within Europe, meaning large airports like this one may become too costly to keep running, if it can't be utilized enough.
- 74d-fe6-2c6 5y agoI'd say this development would rather cause fewer small airports in Germany and hence benefit hubs like BER that are being reached by train. overall though it'll cause fewer air travellers as domestic air transport is breaking away. then again more international air travel will move from smaller German airports to BER.
- carlmr 5y agoTrue, that's a good point.
- oblio 5y agoRestrict how? You'll never restrict it to Eastern Europe, for example. Eastern Europe has almost no high speed rail, so if you cut off "short" flights, travel that would take 4 hours by plane (1 hour to the starting airport, 1 hour in the airport, 1 hour flight, 1 hour from the destination airport) would become 8-12-16+ hours by train for many places.
- carlmr 5y agohttps://www.independent.co.uk/travel/flight-rail-four-hours-europe-b1842051.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/flight-rail-four-hours-... Right now it's still only France, but German politicians are talking about adopting a similar strategy. The French model actually aims to ban flights that have a sub 4h train connection. Meaning the Eastern European nations without high speed rail would have fewer flights affected if this becomes EU policy. It would cut a lot of flights to neighboring countries, and domestically in Germany.
- bobthechef 5y agoOh yes, I recall the absolute silliness like glaring safety issues, doors that wouldn't fit, bad ventilation, construction. But hey, if this pans out, Berlin can still be an okay local airport: https://www.businessinsider.com/first-look-new-transport-hub-in-poland-could-be-worlds-biggest-airport https://www.businessinsider.com/first-look-new-transport-hub...