5 ms·

No you can’t. They don’t know if you have generation or battery capabilities, even if they detect generation capabilities they don’t know how much. With that i

No you can’t. They don’t know if you have generation or battery capabilities, even if they detect generation capabilities they don’t know how much. With that in mind what could they “infer”? I go weeks without triggering a single bit of usage on my meter. I bet you they aren’t thinking: this guy is mining heaps of crypto.

shkkmo 5y ago
Yes, they absolutely can. Like with any surveillance technology, there are things you can do to obfuscate your patterns, but that doesn't mean that a broad rollout of the technology won't have a negative privacy impact on most customers.
- onethought 5y ago
  It’s not obfuscation, if you are concerned about privacy. You can completely hide your usage patterns with a battery or solar/wind generation. Are you honesty making the point that: knowing you used 5 units of power in 1 month (where someone has to walk onto your property and read a number, as is the case in most dumb metered scenarios) is less of a privacy concern than knowing you used .3 of unit of power in the last 15 minutes (without needing to walk onto your property). What am I missing?
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    > knowing you used 5 units of power in 1 month (where someone has to walk onto your property and read a number, as is the case in most dumb metered scenarios) is less of a privacy concern than knowing you used .3 of unit of power in the last 15 minutes (without needing to walk onto your property). Personally, I think so for most people. But that depends on how much privacy your property provides from pedestrians and where your meter is located. However, that is orthogonal to the debate since there are other options. Some places allow self reporting and Automated Meter Reading can be done without a smart meter that reports live power usage. I am unsure why you are so vested in arguing that nobody has a legitimate reason to be concerned about this. It is fine if it doesn't bother you, but it is really necessary to paint those with different concerns as irrational?
    - onethought 5y ago
      no, it’s always worth pointing out irrational reasoning though. There are clear benefits to real-time monitoring of power. So far I’ve only heard made up, theoretical, what if, privacy concerns.
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        > no, it’s always worth pointing out irrational reasoning though. You haven't done that though. You've made accusations of irrationality without ever once backing them up. > So far I’ve only heard made up, theoretical, what if, privacy concerns. I think engineers have am ethical duty to consider "theoretical" privacy concerns when they are working on new technology. Given the history of data mining and brokerage in the US, I would be willing to make significant bets that, (in the absence of a new law being passed to prohibit it,) consumer power usage patterns from smart meters will be sold to data brokers. Pretending this isn't going to happen belies either your knowledge of the existing markets for data or your own rationality.
        onethought 5y ago
        Irrational premise: smart meters have privacy concerns over normal meters. Me: how so, there is way too much noise (generation and storage) to get signal (usage correlation). In real life smart meters allow for all sorts of benefits/innovation (time of use charges, time off user feed in) You: you haven’t said anything, just wild accusations of irrationality. Privacy is a concern, data harvesting!!! Pretending this isn’t going to happen is crazy. Wtf? Smart meters exist, and this hasn’t happened. Show me one instance. Time of use charges are a thing, look them up. Using electrical usage data to gather private information is not a thing. Look that up too.
MereInterest 5y ago
Power consumption correlated with commercial breaks tells you what show somebody is watching. Power consumption correlated with 9-5 tells you if somebody is working from home. Power consumption correlated with a specific time in the morning tells you when somebody wakes up and subsequently turns the heat on. Lower power consumption over several days tells you when somebody is on vacation. Are these relatively minor invasions of privacy compared to what advertising companies perform? Yes. But that's no reason to pretend that they aren't privacy-hostile moves on their own.
- onethought 5y ago
  This is conspiracy theory territory. You <100wh tv isn’t going to show a anything on your power meter during a commercial break. Thermostat heating ruin your wake up time theories. And you avoided my actual point: a battery and solar/wind hides all of this,

shkkmo 5y ago

Yes, they absolutely can. Like with any surveillance technology, there are things you can do to obfuscate your patterns, but that doesn't mean that a broad rollout of the technology won't have a negative privacy impact on most customers.

onethought 5y ago
It’s not obfuscation, if you are concerned about privacy. You can completely hide your usage patterns with a battery or solar/wind generation. Are you honesty making the point that: knowing you used 5 units of power in 1 month (where someone has to walk onto your property and read a number, as is the case in most dumb metered scenarios) is less of a privacy concern than knowing you used .3 of unit of power in the last 15 minutes (without needing to walk onto your property). What am I missing?
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > knowing you used 5 units of power in 1 month (where someone has to walk onto your property and read a number, as is the case in most dumb metered scenarios) is less of a privacy concern than knowing you used .3 of unit of power in the last 15 minutes (without needing to walk onto your property). Personally, I think so for most people. But that depends on how much privacy your property provides from pedestrians and where your meter is located. However, that is orthogonal to the debate since there are other options. Some places allow self reporting and Automated Meter Reading can be done without a smart meter that reports live power usage. I am unsure why you are so vested in arguing that nobody has a legitimate reason to be concerned about this. It is fine if it doesn't bother you, but it is really necessary to paint those with different concerns as irrational?
  - onethought 5y ago
    no, it’s always worth pointing out irrational reasoning though. There are clear benefits to real-time monitoring of power. So far I’ve only heard made up, theoretical, what if, privacy concerns.
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      > no, it’s always worth pointing out irrational reasoning though. You haven't done that though. You've made accusations of irrationality without ever once backing them up. > So far I’ve only heard made up, theoretical, what if, privacy concerns. I think engineers have am ethical duty to consider "theoretical" privacy concerns when they are working on new technology. Given the history of data mining and brokerage in the US, I would be willing to make significant bets that, (in the absence of a new law being passed to prohibit it,) consumer power usage patterns from smart meters will be sold to data brokers. Pretending this isn't going to happen belies either your knowledge of the existing markets for data or your own rationality.
      - onethought 5y ago
        Irrational premise: smart meters have privacy concerns over normal meters. Me: how so, there is way too much noise (generation and storage) to get signal (usage correlation). In real life smart meters allow for all sorts of benefits/innovation (time of use charges, time off user feed in) You: you haven’t said anything, just wild accusations of irrationality. Privacy is a concern, data harvesting!!! Pretending this isn’t going to happen is crazy. Wtf? Smart meters exist, and this hasn’t happened. Show me one instance. Time of use charges are a thing, look them up. Using electrical usage data to gather private information is not a thing. Look that up too.

MereInterest 5y ago

Power consumption correlated with commercial breaks tells you what show somebody is watching. Power consumption correlated with 9-5 tells you if somebody is working from home. Power consumption correlated with a specific time in the morning tells you when somebody wakes up and subsequently turns the heat on. Lower power consumption over several days tells you when somebody is on vacation. Are these relatively minor invasions of privacy compared to what advertising companies perform? Yes. But that's no reason to pretend that they aren't privacy-hostile moves on their own.

onethought 5y ago
This is conspiracy theory territory. You <100wh tv isn’t going to show a anything on your power meter during a commercial break. Thermostat heating ruin your wake up time theories. And you avoided my actual point: a battery and solar/wind hides all of this,