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I don't understand at all who is downvoting you here! I appreciate the thoughtful and wonderful response you've put in, so thank you. I wish so much that people

by wcarss 5y ago

I don't understand at all who is downvoting you here! I appreciate the thoughtful and wonderful response you've put in, so thank you. I wish so much that people wouldn't use votes to express mild disagreement. I thought you were suggesting that animals are not conscious, and saying that you believe so because they are not detectably intelligent, suggesting a direct correspondence between the two. Instead it seems like you and I more or less agree on the matter: no correlation, and even an automaton could be conscious. Thanks also for the interesting Einstein quote. I don't agree that free will is nonsensical to such a degree that it cannot be discussed, but I do agree it is not well defined. I hoped to sidestep the vagueness of free will by discussing it in the meta sense of 'what broad philosophical consensus is held about it', i.e. that there is rather little to say for certain, but even what most people hold to be true doesn't seem to rule out the idea of an automaton being conscious.

nabla9 5y ago
Compatibilism seems to be relatively broad philosophical consensus. It's a position that free will is compatible with determinism. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/
dTal 5y ago
I hazard that some people find attacks on the idea of free will to be philosophically or even politically threatening. If our behavior is deterministic, at any level, how can anything be anyone's fault? Ideas like "justice" and "accountability" are forced into crisis. "That criminal doesn't "deserve" prison, they had a bad childhood!" And maybe this is correct and proper at some level. But powerful evolutionary forces have shaped us not to think this way. It is adaptive to become angry, to punish those who wrong you or your tribe; to treat people as agents rather than phenomena. And so people downvote.

by wcarss 5y ago

nabla9 5y ago

Compatibilism seems to be relatively broad philosophical consensus. It's a position that free will is compatible with determinism. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/

dTal 5y ago

I hazard that some people find attacks on the idea of free will to be philosophically or even politically threatening. If our behavior is deterministic, at any level, how can anything be anyone's fault? Ideas like "justice" and "accountability" are forced into crisis. "That criminal doesn't "deserve" prison, they had a bad childhood!" And maybe this is correct and proper at some level. But powerful evolutionary forces have shaped us not to think this way. It is adaptive to become angry, to punish those who wrong you or your tribe; to treat people as agents rather than phenomena. And so people downvote.