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That's not video hosting that's monopolyish, then, that's English-speaking-audience video discovery, which is a quite different proposition.

by kixiQu 5y ago

jeffgreco 5y ago
To be fair, “English-speaking” is pretty relevant in the state/country being discussed.
loup-vaillant 5y ago
Agreed, but that's a technicality. What matters is, if you want to make a living, you have to host on YouTube. (You can host elsewhere, but over 99% of your revenue will come from your notoriety at YouTube, if not YouTube directly.) And if you want videos, they're all on YouTube. You can search for them elsewhere but most of the content is on YouTube, and you won't avoid it even if your search started from a general purpose search engine like DuckDuckGo. One notable exception of course is porn. But that's such a separated segment that it's pretty obvious I meant "non-porn videos" all along in this thread.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  What kind of living are you making just posting videos to youtube? A random example but most stage hypnotists sell their shows via vimeo. If you ever go to a show and want to buy a copy they will send you there. The stuff they post on youtube is mostly highlights or lower quality video. It would take them 100,000 ad views (1,000,000 regular views) to equal one copy sold. Youtube could get you some views but you need to make your money elsewhere. In the case above the additional revenues are from vimeo. Youtube's role is to hopefully get someone to book the event but you would be better off having good word of mouth than hoping someone sees your videos on youtube and lives in the same area and tries to book you for a corporate gig or faire.
  - loup-vaillant 5y ago
    > Youtube could get you some views but you need to make your money elsewhere. Yes of course. But YouTube will still be responsible for most of that money: want a sponsor to pay you? You need to have enough viewers in the first place. Want donations? You need enough viewers for donations to flow in. Selling swag? You need enough viewers to know about your store. Even your stage hypnotists: why people go see their shows in the first place? I bet many learned about those shows from YouTube. Also, stage performers are a bit different in that their main activity happens offline. If all your activity is online, you're back to YouTube being the only point of entry.
  - mwilliaams 5y ago
    Have you not heard of YouTubers? There are a lot of people who make a living off of YouTube.
- GlitchMr 5y ago
  Another exception would be gaming videos where Twitch is rather popular. Sure, many Twitch users will re-upload their streams on YouTube (no reason not to, YouTube is a popular platform still even in gaming), but most of the revenue will actually come from Twitch. That said, for most videos YouTube is realistically the only choice.
- kixiQu 5y ago
  When talking about the concept of monopoly, it's quite relevant which part is under discussion. For example, a lot of video content I consume is from Instagram or TikTok. This stuff is real and it counts. Creators there often have little to no YouTube presence, and are relying on their platforms for the same question of discovery, and your claim about 99% of their revenue simply isn't accurate. This is a quibble, except for the fact that when we're talking about monopoly, every exception counts. "If you want to make a living, you have to host on YouTube." If you want to short-circuit a lot of the work of audience development by having a recommendation algorithm point a firehose of eyeballs at your stuff, you have to host on YouTube or a comparable platform. However, that is a very different thing, and not a technicality at all! The business model of a YouTube creator is precarious and contingent, because their relationship with their audience is so thoroughly mediated by the platform that the platform's whims give and take away. ("Hit the bell so you don't miss a video") Essentially, there's a risk of taking the dependent-on-platform-aspect of this business model for granted in a way that obscures the alternatives people really do use these days. (E.g., I know we probably all hate those Wordpress sales funnel things, but from the perspective of "how do I make money from my content" they're genuinely an option we should be contrasting here)
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Its rair for something to be so accurately true, yet so irrelevant
acituan 5y ago
Video discovery in itself is not monopolyish either. It is the vertical integration of video hosting + video discovery that makes the monopoly. Hence the solution being a break up; separate youtube-the-video-hosting-infra from youtube-the-recommendation-engine, allow market access to infra, allow competition on video discovery.
SilverRed 5y ago
Discovery and hosting are the exact same thing right now. People don't open up their RSS reader to find new videos, they go directly to youtube. If you aren't on youtube then you won't be seen.
- hopesthoughts 5y ago
  Except me, if I open up my RSS reader, I'm usually looking for something new. I turn Youtube videos into audio podcasts using a service, and put them in a podcast client that's separate from my RSS reader.

That's not video hosting that's monopolyish, then, that's English-speaking-audience video discovery, which is a quite different proposition.

by kixiQu 5y ago

That's not video hosting that's monopolyish, then, that's English-speaking-audience video discovery, which is a quite different proposition.

jeffgreco 5y ago

To be fair, “English-speaking” is pretty relevant in the state/country being discussed.

loup-vaillant 5y ago

Agreed, but that's a technicality. What matters is, if you want to make a living, you have to host on YouTube. (You can host elsewhere, but over 99% of your revenue will come from your notoriety at YouTube, if not YouTube directly.) And if you want videos, they're all on YouTube. You can search for them elsewhere but most of the content is on YouTube, and you won't avoid it even if your search started from a general purpose search engine like DuckDuckGo. One notable exception of course is porn. But that's such a separated segment that it's pretty obvious I meant "non-porn videos" all along in this thread.

ipaddr 5y ago
What kind of living are you making just posting videos to youtube? A random example but most stage hypnotists sell their shows via vimeo. If you ever go to a show and want to buy a copy they will send you there. The stuff they post on youtube is mostly highlights or lower quality video. It would take them 100,000 ad views (1,000,000 regular views) to equal one copy sold. Youtube could get you some views but you need to make your money elsewhere. In the case above the additional revenues are from vimeo. Youtube's role is to hopefully get someone to book the event but you would be better off having good word of mouth than hoping someone sees your videos on youtube and lives in the same area and tries to book you for a corporate gig or faire.
- loup-vaillant 5y ago
  > Youtube could get you some views but you need to make your money elsewhere. Yes of course. But YouTube will still be responsible for most of that money: want a sponsor to pay you? You need to have enough viewers in the first place. Want donations? You need enough viewers for donations to flow in. Selling swag? You need enough viewers to know about your store. Even your stage hypnotists: why people go see their shows in the first place? I bet many learned about those shows from YouTube. Also, stage performers are a bit different in that their main activity happens offline. If all your activity is online, you're back to YouTube being the only point of entry.
- mwilliaams 5y ago
  Have you not heard of YouTubers? There are a lot of people who make a living off of YouTube.
GlitchMr 5y ago
Another exception would be gaming videos where Twitch is rather popular. Sure, many Twitch users will re-upload their streams on YouTube (no reason not to, YouTube is a popular platform still even in gaming), but most of the revenue will actually come from Twitch. That said, for most videos YouTube is realistically the only choice.
kixiQu 5y ago
When talking about the concept of monopoly, it's quite relevant which part is under discussion. For example, a lot of video content I consume is from Instagram or TikTok. This stuff is real and it counts. Creators there often have little to no YouTube presence, and are relying on their platforms for the same question of discovery, and your claim about 99% of their revenue simply isn't accurate. This is a quibble, except for the fact that when we're talking about monopoly, every exception counts. "If you want to make a living, you have to host on YouTube." If you want to short-circuit a lot of the work of audience development by having a recommendation algorithm point a firehose of eyeballs at your stuff, you have to host on YouTube or a comparable platform. However, that is a very different thing, and not a technicality at all! The business model of a YouTube creator is precarious and contingent, because their relationship with their audience is so thoroughly mediated by the platform that the platform's whims give and take away. ("Hit the bell so you don't miss a video") Essentially, there's a risk of taking the dependent-on-platform-aspect of this business model for granted in a way that obscures the alternatives people really do use these days. (E.g., I know we probably all hate those Wordpress sales funnel things, but from the perspective of "how do I make money from my content" they're genuinely an option we should be contrasting here)

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

Its rair for something to be so accurately true, yet so irrelevant

acituan 5y ago

Video discovery in itself is not monopolyish either. It is the vertical integration of video hosting + video discovery that makes the monopoly. Hence the solution being a break up; separate youtube-the-video-hosting-infra from youtube-the-recommendation-engine, allow market access to infra, allow competition on video discovery.

SilverRed 5y ago

Discovery and hosting are the exact same thing right now. People don't open up their RSS reader to find new videos, they go directly to youtube. If you aren't on youtube then you won't be seen.

hopesthoughts 5y ago
Except me, if I open up my RSS reader, I'm usually looking for something new. I turn Youtube videos into audio podcasts using a service, and put them in a podcast client that's separate from my RSS reader.