3 ms·

Except that this behaviour shows up in non-monopolistic markets as well. Apple does it. PayPal does it. Heck, our European banks have started doing it despite t

by izacus 5y ago

Except that this behaviour shows up in non-monopolistic markets as well. Apple does it. PayPal does it. Heck, our European banks have started doing it despite there being ample competition. What the competition did, is made sure EVERY competing entity does that because it's cheaper and costs were brought down with race to the bottom. I don't get where this bizarre belief that "moar free market" will solve issues. Let's setup proper legal framework where these companies must have a good reason to terminate contract instead - and properly explain it with the ability to appeal.

dantheman 5y ago
Freedom of association is important, and you shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to.
- mc32 5y ago
  So it’s okay for banks to choose who they’ll let bank with them? In any case, I disagree. Some things are basic necessities.
  - paddez 5y ago
    Yes. Banks close accounts all the time of clients they no longer want to risk business with.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    yes...? if you overdraw your account and/or bounce checks over and over, it's not unreasonable for the bank to close that account eventually.
  - asiachick 5y ago
    banks do that all the time. try writing a few checks over your balance and not paying up. they will definitely terminate your account. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/can-my-bank-close-my-account https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/can-my-bank-close... That said I do wish there was some regulation for accounts for Apple, Microsoft, Google, Steam, etc as closing an account can have huge reprocussions.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    Credit unions frequently have exclusive membership, typically a certain geographical area though many started out specifically for members of certain unions.
- 35fbe7d3d5b9 5y ago
  "Sorry Mr. Jones, we've decided your, ahem alternative lifestyle and beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with the views of our company. Your electrical service will be discontinued in three to five business days."
- aaron-santos 5y ago
  I may be misunderstanding this. Does this mean "You [a business] shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to"? If so, why should rights of people extend to businesses? People already have the freedom of association of employment that seems to cover this. ie: if someone doesn't want to associate with someone else as an employee of a business, they can simply not work at that business.
  - thegrimmest 5y ago
    > You [a business] Businesses aren't people, they're legal fiction. The individuals who make these decisions do and should have the right to do business with whomever they want, based on any criteria they deem appropriate. This constitutes the distinction between the private and public sphere.
    - bumby 5y ago
      >should have the right to do business with whomever they want, based on any criteria they deem appropriate. There's a subtle distinction where you may have layered your own individual beliefs onto this statement by using the word "should", rather than indicating what is actually the law. While you may feel they "should" have that right based on your own feelings and personal morality, there are specific laws that say they do not. In many jurisdictions within the U.S., for example, businesses generally do not have the right to refuse business to a person based on that person being part of a protected class.
- gwright 5y ago
  Due process is also important. A balance is needed.
- brigandish 5y ago
  That’s why selling as a private individual is different to setting up a company, in the first you can choose not to sell to whomever for whatever reason with no legal comeback. Try denying service to someone in a protected class if you’re in the second and you may well end up with real legal problems.
mclightning 5y ago
You need to find the person whose KPI would be effected by you leaving as a customer. Go find them on LinkedIn, message your experience and statement that you're leaving. When corporations put up higher and higher walls around their official channels of communication, you either need to get louder or go around the wall. I am working for a big e-commerce corp., we are made to read/go-through customer feedback occasionally. That is just to find a %1~ of potential conversion improvement we can make. Companies do care about conversion/retention. Problem is only the communication between the customer and the right team of people inside.

by izacus 5y ago

dantheman 5y ago

Freedom of association is important, and you shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to.

mc32 5y ago
So it’s okay for banks to choose who they’ll let bank with them? In any case, I disagree. Some things are basic necessities.
- paddez 5y ago
  Yes. Banks close accounts all the time of clients they no longer want to risk business with.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  yes...? if you overdraw your account and/or bounce checks over and over, it's not unreasonable for the bank to close that account eventually.
- asiachick 5y ago
  banks do that all the time. try writing a few checks over your balance and not paying up. they will definitely terminate your account. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/can-my-bank-close-my-account https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/can-my-bank-close... That said I do wish there was some regulation for accounts for Apple, Microsoft, Google, Steam, etc as closing an account can have huge reprocussions.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Credit unions frequently have exclusive membership, typically a certain geographical area though many started out specifically for members of certain unions.
35fbe7d3d5b9 5y ago
"Sorry Mr. Jones, we've decided your, ahem alternative lifestyle and beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with the views of our company. Your electrical service will be discontinued in three to five business days."
aaron-santos 5y ago
I may be misunderstanding this. Does this mean "You [a business] shouldn't have to do business with people you don't want to"? If so, why should rights of people extend to businesses? People already have the freedom of association of employment that seems to cover this. ie: if someone doesn't want to associate with someone else as an employee of a business, they can simply not work at that business.
- thegrimmest 5y ago
  > You [a business] Businesses aren't people, they're legal fiction. The individuals who make these decisions do and should have the right to do business with whomever they want, based on any criteria they deem appropriate. This constitutes the distinction between the private and public sphere.
  - bumby 5y ago
    >should have the right to do business with whomever they want, based on any criteria they deem appropriate. There's a subtle distinction where you may have layered your own individual beliefs onto this statement by using the word "should", rather than indicating what is actually the law. While you may feel they "should" have that right based on your own feelings and personal morality, there are specific laws that say they do not. In many jurisdictions within the U.S., for example, businesses generally do not have the right to refuse business to a person based on that person being part of a protected class.
gwright 5y ago
Due process is also important. A balance is needed.
brigandish 5y ago
That’s why selling as a private individual is different to setting up a company, in the first you can choose not to sell to whomever for whatever reason with no legal comeback. Try denying service to someone in a protected class if you’re in the second and you may well end up with real legal problems.

mclightning 5y ago

You need to find the person whose KPI would be effected by you leaving as a customer. Go find them on LinkedIn, message your experience and statement that you're leaving. When corporations put up higher and higher walls around their official channels of communication, you either need to get louder or go around the wall. I am working for a big e-commerce corp., we are made to read/go-through customer feedback occasionally. That is just to find a %1~ of potential conversion improvement we can make. Companies do care about conversion/retention. Problem is only the communication between the customer and the right team of people inside.