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The craziest part, to me, is how the CEO could have expressed his view in a way that would have been much more compelling. "Hey, really cool project. Though h

The craziest part, to me, is how the CEO could have expressed his view in a way that would have been much more compelling. "Hey, really cool project. Though honestly, not sure how I feel about a former intern of mine publishing a project that is so similar to what they worked on as an intern. But on that note, we'd be happy to have you back on the team if you want to continue the project with us :) What do you say?" or something along those lines. I still wouldn't agree with him, but at least I'd sympathize. instead he went full-on attack mode, lawyers and all. sheesh. talk about tone deaf.

swyx 5y ago
not defending his action here at all but the psychology of being a startup founder is interesting here. he couldve "seen this movie before" and jumped to conclusions. he couldve just had a rough day. sometimes you spend entire adult life feeling like the whole world is against you and you lash out without thinking it through. everyone is armchair quarterbacking here on what was the rational thing to do. but we are mostly not rational creatures esp when our "babies" are involved.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  The CEO Amjad Masad was on Twitter doubling down on his accusations that Radon is a thief, even after his post on HN. Even now Amjad refuses to provide any detail or receipts to Radon for his public accusations of tortious behavior. > everyone is armchair quarterbacking here on what was the rational thing to do. Do you seriously prefer your web psychoanalysis?
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    BTW, a habit of spurious legal harassment is called "barratry". It is harder to demonstrate it to the satisfaction of courts than it perhaps should be, possibly because the habit is profitable for lawyers.
    - hluska 5y ago
      If anyone reads this, finds it interesting and wants to learn more, read about ‘vexatious litigation’. The process through which lawyers can be disbarred or litigants can be named vexatious is genuinely quite interesting.
- minimaxir 5y ago
  > but we are mostly not rational creatures esp when our "babies" are involved. The difference here is that CEOs are expected to handle things professionally, especially CEOs of a VC-backed startup. As noted in the previous thread, the "rough day" excuse doesn't fly when you double down and offer legal threats.
nrmitchi 5y ago
I am curious, and I'm curious for many others commenting in these threads; did you read the entire email thread was that posted on imgur (and referenced as "technical details" from the post), or just the content of the original blog post? I only ask because there is a 3-page (in my opinion, aggressively worded) email response in between "I feel this is unethical" and "legal action". I could see how the content and tone of that particular email could be interpreted in a way that could escalate the situation. Again, I do not agree with the response here, but it's not as if there wasn't a long email with a fair amount of context in the middle.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Three pages of text is a lot to read in images you can't reprocess for accessibility on a site made for viewing images.
  - nrmitchi 5y ago
    Ya, it's definitely a lot to read. But if you are going to make statements like "I can't believe he responded in that way!!", it's important to read the thing that is actually being responded to.
    - hluska 5y ago
      I read the three page disaster and it was a disaster. However, it was from a recent graduate. The response was written by a CEO. C level positions carry a certain duty and require tremendous skill. In this case, Amjad responded to a poorly written email in such a way that every investor and employee has to fear or they’re not paying attention. Humans have thousands of years of experience processing trust. It takes a life to build a good reputation and one email chain to destroy it. C level leaders genuinely have to be a lot better than this, especially when faced with difficult emails.
- ywei3410 5y ago
  If you're referring to the email which Radon responds to the technical details; I don't think it's fair to label it aggressively worded without mentioning that Amjad had essentially accused them of copying internal design decisions. Taken directly from the email; "but this feels weird/unethical since you worked for us and now are copying internal design decisions (even bad ones)". Could Radon's email be worded better to defuse the situation? Probably; but they are a fresh graduate just out of university and I think it's reasonable to hold Amjad to a higher standard.
TearsInTheRain 5y ago
It looked like his first reaction was exactly that, he even pitched him on a job. It was the second and third reaction where he started bringing up issues with copying
mustacheemperor 5y ago
I learned very on in my founder career that invoking potential legal action is a big red button you must be extraordinarily cautious about using. Chances are if you need it, other core team members will be telling you as much. And using it at the wrong time looks like setting off a bomb in a restaurant because your water glass is empty for ten minutes. So much egotism from the CEO in this exchange. I'm glad this was published and posted to HN because it's a valuable lesson to learn by example from.

swyx 5y ago

not defending his action here at all but the psychology of being a startup founder is interesting here. he couldve "seen this movie before" and jumped to conclusions. he couldve just had a rough day. sometimes you spend entire adult life feeling like the whole world is against you and you lash out without thinking it through. everyone is armchair quarterbacking here on what was the rational thing to do. but we are mostly not rational creatures esp when our "babies" are involved.

threatofrain 5y ago
The CEO Amjad Masad was on Twitter doubling down on his accusations that Radon is a thief, even after his post on HN. Even now Amjad refuses to provide any detail or receipts to Radon for his public accusations of tortious behavior. > everyone is armchair quarterbacking here on what was the rational thing to do. Do you seriously prefer your web psychoanalysis?
- ncmncm 5y ago
  BTW, a habit of spurious legal harassment is called "barratry". It is harder to demonstrate it to the satisfaction of courts than it perhaps should be, possibly because the habit is profitable for lawyers.
  - hluska 5y ago
    If anyone reads this, finds it interesting and wants to learn more, read about ‘vexatious litigation’. The process through which lawyers can be disbarred or litigants can be named vexatious is genuinely quite interesting.
minimaxir 5y ago
> but we are mostly not rational creatures esp when our "babies" are involved. The difference here is that CEOs are expected to handle things professionally, especially CEOs of a VC-backed startup. As noted in the previous thread, the "rough day" excuse doesn't fly when you double down and offer legal threats.

nrmitchi 5y ago

I am curious, and I'm curious for many others commenting in these threads; did you read the entire email thread was that posted on imgur (and referenced as "technical details" from the post), or just the content of the original blog post? I only ask because there is a 3-page (in my opinion, aggressively worded) email response in between "I feel this is unethical" and "legal action". I could see how the content and tone of that particular email could be interpreted in a way that could escalate the situation. Again, I do not agree with the response here, but it's not as if there wasn't a long email with a fair amount of context in the middle.

mkr-hn 5y ago
Three pages of text is a lot to read in images you can't reprocess for accessibility on a site made for viewing images.
- nrmitchi 5y ago
  Ya, it's definitely a lot to read. But if you are going to make statements like "I can't believe he responded in that way!!", it's important to read the thing that is actually being responded to.
  - hluska 5y ago
    I read the three page disaster and it was a disaster. However, it was from a recent graduate. The response was written by a CEO. C level positions carry a certain duty and require tremendous skill. In this case, Amjad responded to a poorly written email in such a way that every investor and employee has to fear or they’re not paying attention. Humans have thousands of years of experience processing trust. It takes a life to build a good reputation and one email chain to destroy it. C level leaders genuinely have to be a lot better than this, especially when faced with difficult emails.
ywei3410 5y ago
If you're referring to the email which Radon responds to the technical details; I don't think it's fair to label it aggressively worded without mentioning that Amjad had essentially accused them of copying internal design decisions. Taken directly from the email; "but this feels weird/unethical since you worked for us and now are copying internal design decisions (even bad ones)". Could Radon's email be worded better to defuse the situation? Probably; but they are a fresh graduate just out of university and I think it's reasonable to hold Amjad to a higher standard.

TearsInTheRain 5y ago

It looked like his first reaction was exactly that, he even pitched him on a job. It was the second and third reaction where he started bringing up issues with copying

mustacheemperor 5y ago

I learned very on in my founder career that invoking potential legal action is a big red button you must be extraordinarily cautious about using. Chances are if you need it, other core team members will be telling you as much. And using it at the wrong time looks like setting off a bomb in a restaurant because your water glass is empty for ten minutes. So much egotism from the CEO in this exchange. I'm glad this was published and posted to HN because it's a valuable lesson to learn by example from.