5 ms·

I wonder how long until DIY weaponized drones are available to common criminals. It doesn't seem like we are prepared to deal with something like this.

WanderPanda 5y ago
Strap a knife on a fpv rc airplane and you have something as deadly as a sniper
- abz10 5y ago
  Unlike a bullet you could hear an RC airplane coming.
  - korse 5y ago
    Actually this isn't a big problem. Quads or RC planes at a reasonable height aren't audible. Add in night and lack of running lights and no one is going to notice. If you are using a wing, then you just program your robot to come in high, cut it's engine and continue on a glide trajectory to the target. The flap servos make nearly no noise. If you've got a quad, come in fast and basically huck the vehicle at the target. Ardupilot + ROS make this all relatively straightforward to implement and provide an easy way to interface with necessary sub-systems.
    - abz10 5y ago
      Ardupilot will not hit a human size target. People can barely do it. You're not going to lob a tumbling quad at a target with any accuracy that's a joke. To do this with any reliability you need custom software and probably hardware. It'll look more like a smart munition. But it'll also be more difficult than strapping a knife to a RC plane.
      - korse 5y ago
        First, we aren't talking knives. Second, who said the quad was tumbling? Significantly cutting engine speed and removing significant lift forces on a quad in order to kill the buzz doesn't mean it will start wildly gyrating. Third, Ardupilot will get you within a few feet of a specified point with a good enough vector and speed. Luckily you can use a subroutine (secondary control program) to handle the final approach from the 'point' to the target.
        abz10 5y ago
        We literally are talking knives on RC planes; see the comment I originally replied to. You are moving the goal posts. A quad will tumble with the motors off, the whole thing is a significant lift force. It was a big problem in early controller software where throttle dead zone would turn off the props. A problem I personally experienced. Maintaining any semblance of stability requires active adjustment. And no, Ardupilot will not get anything going at high speed to within a few feet in 3d space.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Not when it is diving down vertically, from high above.
    - abz10 5y ago
      Off the shelf RC airplanes have terrible unpowered terminal velocity. You'd have to custom build to get anything decent. Which is more difficult than strapping a knife to a RC plane.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
        3D-printer to the rescue!
    - mLuby 5y ago
      Like this RC airplane (drone) modeled after a WW2 dive bomber. https://youtu.be/ogxKvQeVqqc?t=583 https://youtu.be/ogxKvQeVqqc?t=583
      - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
        Lol, yes! But the Stuka (Sturzkampfbomber) wasn't what I had in mind. In reality they were (retro)fitted with gadgets that made them whine/screech loudly when doin' the dive...
rolph 5y ago
if you can make a unabomber type of device you can construct a weaponized quadrocopter thinking further, even just the manner, or tactics used when flying could be weapon like, such as chaff drones
- lurquer 5y ago
  > if you can make a unabomber type of device you can construct a weaponized quadrocopter It’s trivial, cheap, and simple to do massive harm to massive numbers of people. Fortunately, humans don’t usually do this unless part of the government/military. In a country of 300 million, the only non-state mass death events are a handful of terrorist attacks and deranged teenagers determined to shoot up their schools. The annual deaths caused by these non-state actors is, on average, less than the annual fatalities on a given stretch of a run-of-the-mill interstate.
  - boplicity 5y ago
    In 2020, 24 people died in car crashes in all of Seattle. [1] In 2020, 446 people died in mass shootings in the US. [2] 1. https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-traffic-deaths-remain-high-but-total-crashes-down-sharply-report-finds https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-traffic-deaths-remai... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_...
    - benchaney 5y ago
      Why are you comparing traffic fatalities in Seattle to mass shooting fatalities in the entire country? That makes no sense. In any event >40k people died from traffic fatalities in the United States in 2020[0], so a few orders of magnitude larger than mass shooting deaths, [0] https://www.npr.org/2021/03/05/974006735/tragic-driving-was-down-in-2020-but-traffic-fatality-rates-surged https://www.npr.org/2021/03/05/974006735/tragic-driving-was-...
MikeDelta 5y ago
I read somewhere that commercial drones with bombs were used in, I believe, Afghanistan against the US forces.
pmastela 5y ago
> I wonder how long until DIY weaponized drones are available to common criminals. Common criminals are using commodity drones for reconnaissance [1]. [1] https://www.techradar.com/news/criminal-intent-fbi-details-how-drones-are-being-used-for-crime https://www.techradar.com/news/criminal-intent-fbi-details-h...
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
..or the general public? Imagine a web site where you give your credit card and name a victim.
g8oz 5y ago
Exactly. The drive by gang shooting may become a fly by soon.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  They don't even need guns. Drones can just lift a rock or metal sphere up a few hundred feet and drop it over the target. Imagine a fleet of 50 drones dropping dense objects onto a house or car: would be more destructive than an automatic weapon, and harder to avoid. I wonder if standard BBs or ball bearings could achieve sufficient terminal velocity to pierce skin - would mitigate accuracy requirements if you could dump them by the dozens or hundreds.

WanderPanda 5y ago

Strap a knife on a fpv rc airplane and you have something as deadly as a sniper

abz10 5y ago
Unlike a bullet you could hear an RC airplane coming.
- korse 5y ago
  Actually this isn't a big problem. Quads or RC planes at a reasonable height aren't audible. Add in night and lack of running lights and no one is going to notice. If you are using a wing, then you just program your robot to come in high, cut it's engine and continue on a glide trajectory to the target. The flap servos make nearly no noise. If you've got a quad, come in fast and basically huck the vehicle at the target. Ardupilot + ROS make this all relatively straightforward to implement and provide an easy way to interface with necessary sub-systems.
  - abz10 5y ago
    Ardupilot will not hit a human size target. People can barely do it. You're not going to lob a tumbling quad at a target with any accuracy that's a joke. To do this with any reliability you need custom software and probably hardware. It'll look more like a smart munition. But it'll also be more difficult than strapping a knife to a RC plane.
    - korse 5y ago
      First, we aren't talking knives. Second, who said the quad was tumbling? Significantly cutting engine speed and removing significant lift forces on a quad in order to kill the buzz doesn't mean it will start wildly gyrating. Third, Ardupilot will get you within a few feet of a specified point with a good enough vector and speed. Luckily you can use a subroutine (secondary control program) to handle the final approach from the 'point' to the target.
      - abz10 5y ago
        We literally are talking knives on RC planes; see the comment I originally replied to. You are moving the goal posts. A quad will tumble with the motors off, the whole thing is a significant lift force. It was a big problem in early controller software where throttle dead zone would turn off the props. A problem I personally experienced. Maintaining any semblance of stability requires active adjustment. And no, Ardupilot will not get anything going at high speed to within a few feet in 3d space.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Not when it is diving down vertically, from high above.
  - abz10 5y ago
    Off the shelf RC airplanes have terrible unpowered terminal velocity. You'd have to custom build to get anything decent. Which is more difficult than strapping a knife to a RC plane.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      3D-printer to the rescue!
  - mLuby 5y ago
    Like this RC airplane (drone) modeled after a WW2 dive bomber. https://youtu.be/ogxKvQeVqqc?t=583 https://youtu.be/ogxKvQeVqqc?t=583
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      Lol, yes! But the Stuka (Sturzkampfbomber) wasn't what I had in mind. In reality they were (retro)fitted with gadgets that made them whine/screech loudly when doin' the dive...

rolph 5y ago

if you can make a unabomber type of device you can construct a weaponized quadrocopter thinking further, even just the manner, or tactics used when flying could be weapon like, such as chaff drones

lurquer 5y ago
> if you can make a unabomber type of device you can construct a weaponized quadrocopter It’s trivial, cheap, and simple to do massive harm to massive numbers of people. Fortunately, humans don’t usually do this unless part of the government/military. In a country of 300 million, the only non-state mass death events are a handful of terrorist attacks and deranged teenagers determined to shoot up their schools. The annual deaths caused by these non-state actors is, on average, less than the annual fatalities on a given stretch of a run-of-the-mill interstate.
- boplicity 5y ago
  In 2020, 24 people died in car crashes in all of Seattle. [1] In 2020, 446 people died in mass shootings in the US. [2] 1. https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-traffic-deaths-remain-high-but-total-crashes-down-sharply-report-finds https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-traffic-deaths-remai... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_...
  - benchaney 5y ago
    Why are you comparing traffic fatalities in Seattle to mass shooting fatalities in the entire country? That makes no sense. In any event >40k people died from traffic fatalities in the United States in 2020[0], so a few orders of magnitude larger than mass shooting deaths, [0] https://www.npr.org/2021/03/05/974006735/tragic-driving-was-down-in-2020-but-traffic-fatality-rates-surged https://www.npr.org/2021/03/05/974006735/tragic-driving-was-...

MikeDelta 5y ago

I read somewhere that commercial drones with bombs were used in, I believe, Afghanistan against the US forces.

pmastela 5y ago

> I wonder how long until DIY weaponized drones are available to common criminals. Common criminals are using commodity drones for reconnaissance [1]. [1] https://www.techradar.com/news/criminal-intent-fbi-details-how-drones-are-being-used-for-crime https://www.techradar.com/news/criminal-intent-fbi-details-h...

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

..or the general public? Imagine a web site where you give your credit card and name a victim.

g8oz 5y ago

Exactly. The drive by gang shooting may become a fly by soon.

cwkoss 5y ago
They don't even need guns. Drones can just lift a rock or metal sphere up a few hundred feet and drop it over the target. Imagine a fleet of 50 drones dropping dense objects onto a house or car: would be more destructive than an automatic weapon, and harder to avoid. I wonder if standard BBs or ball bearings could achieve sufficient terminal velocity to pierce skin - would mitigate accuracy requirements if you could dump them by the dozens or hundreds.