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HANGMAN: Now, you're wanted for murder. For the sake of my analogy, let's just assume that you did it. Now, John Ruth wants to take you back to Red Rock to st

HANGMAN: Now, you're wanted for murder. For the sake of my analogy, let's just assume that you did it. Now, John Ruth wants to take you back to Red Rock to stand trial for murder. And if you're found guilty, the people of Red Rock will hang you in the town square. And, as the hangman, I will perform the execution. And if all those things end up taking place, that's what civilized society calls justice. However, if the relatives and the loved ones of the person you murdered were outside that door right now, and after busting down that door, they drug you out into the snow and hung you up by the neck, that would be frontier justice. Now, the good part about frontier justice is it's very thirst-quenching. The bad part is it's apt to be wrong as right. Well, not in your case. In your case, you'd have it coming. But other people, maybe not so much. OSWALDO: But ultimately, what's the real difference between the two? HANGMAN: The real difference is me. The hangman. To me, it doesn't matter what you did. When I hang you, I'll get no satisfaction from your death. It's my job. I hang you in Red Rock. I move on to the next town. I hang someone else there. The man who pulls the lever that breaks your neck will be a dispassionate man. And that dispassion is the very essence of justice. For justice delivered without dispassion is always in danger of not being justice.

unholythree 5y ago
I’ve noticed a unfortunate conflation of word lynching with racism motivated homocide lately. Even from authorities (newspapers, lawyers, some state ACLU) that have to know they aren’t always the same. I think the nuance of these specific injustices is important because the solutions are different. A killing could even be lawful but racist and therefor unjust, but that’s a distinct (albeit important) problem from mob violence or murder.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Lone Star beer used to have images under their bottle caps as puns[1]. One of them used an image of a noose as part of the puzzle, which was completely unrelated to race, or death - it was simply using the word as a similar word to "news". Someone went apeshit on Twitter[2], and now all the puns are gone while Lone Star reviews them for sensitivity. I'm politically liberal, and I'm fucking ashamed of the fact that this kind of stupid behavior is associated with liberal politics. 1. https://lonestarbottlecaps.com https://lonestarbottlecaps.com 2. https://www.mysanantonio.com/food/bars-drinks/article/what-happened-lone-star-bottle-caps-puzzle-missing-16210414.php https://www.mysanantonio.com/food/bars-drinks/article/what-h...
  - jfengel 5y ago
    There's no such thing as a noose that's unrelated to death. That's what they're for. The puzzle may not be related to death, but the noose is. And in the US there's no such thing as a noose that's unrelated to race. They are being used, today, as racist threats. When a noose appears, lynching is the assumed meaning, and not just by black people [1]. So it's a good thing that Lone Star is taking a look at the entire project. Using a noose was a mistake. One presumably made in good faith, but a mistake nonetheless. So the right thing to do is pull not just it, but to make sure that they didn't make other mistakes -- a sign of good faith. I'm all for accepting a good and sincere apology. A lot of people have made bad and insincere apologies, and not only does that not help, it makes things worse by giving people an excuse to pretend that good apologies aren't worth doing. This is a good choice and I'd encourage people to take that. [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/554694-amazon-closing-connecticut-site-after-another-noose-found https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/554694-amazon-closi...
    - unethical_ban 5y ago
      I didn't downvote you, but a noose in a locker is wildly different from making a pun about "headline news", and to suggest otherwise is foolish. "There is no such thing blah blah" - yes, there is, it's called context. Someone who feels threatened by a pun "headline news" with a noose is not properly adjusted to the adult world. Do kids not play hangman anymore? More broadly, I think twitter lowers the bar for whining and manufacturing rage. In a pre-Internet world, would that woman have cried, or otherwise been mortified at the beer top? Would she have taken a picture and sent it to the investigative reporter in Dallas where Lone Star is brewed? Or would she have gone "Huh, that's rude, how strange" and thrown it away? It's easy to get wrapped up in the hate-think, and I think this is a case of it.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - verall 5y ago
        Yes, and a part of this context is that Lone Star invokes images of the old state of Texas. When they lean into this, if they are not careful, they lean into some really awful events. It's not the same as the same pun on a bottle of Snapple.
aeturnum 5y ago
>The man who pulls the lever that breaks your neck will be a dispassionate man. >And that dispassion is the very essence of justice. >For justice delivered without dispassion is always in danger of not being justice. Based on the reporting I've read on the internal cultures of police departments and the wider "law enforcement" community (federal law enforcement, prison administration, etc) I am pretty skeptical that "justice" is dispassionate. Instead, I think these groups wrap themselves in a myth of dispassion while they place thumbs (and larger things) on the scale in a way that reflects their personal beliefs and biases.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  It should probably be noted that the hangman proves to be quite passionate before the film is through.
- karmanyaahm 5y ago
  I think rrrrrrrrrrrryan is talking about the ideal scenario, in the real world there will always be some biases.
- mariodiana 5y ago
  Maybe the essence of justice is its effect, and by effect we're not talking about its effect on the accused but on the rest of society. The political science class I took back in college (over 20 years ago now) began with the Oresteia trilogy, by Aeschylus. The issue there is between "frontier justice" (actually, blood feuds) and civil justice (justice of the polis). The message there is that there can be no civilization unless the people of a society sublimate their (intrinsic?) passion for frontier justice towards civil justice. The myth, as you call it, is there to bind us as a society — as any myth does. I don't know what movie is being referred to above, but the idea from that passage doesn't originate with the movie.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    The Hateful Eight. Really long (it's more of a stage play), but like most of Tarantino's films, the dialogue is stellar.

unholythree 5y ago

I’ve noticed a unfortunate conflation of word lynching with racism motivated homocide lately. Even from authorities (newspapers, lawyers, some state ACLU) that have to know they aren’t always the same. I think the nuance of these specific injustices is important because the solutions are different. A killing could even be lawful but racist and therefor unjust, but that’s a distinct (albeit important) problem from mob violence or murder.

unethical_ban 5y ago
Lone Star beer used to have images under their bottle caps as puns[1]. One of them used an image of a noose as part of the puzzle, which was completely unrelated to race, or death - it was simply using the word as a similar word to "news". Someone went apeshit on Twitter[2], and now all the puns are gone while Lone Star reviews them for sensitivity. I'm politically liberal, and I'm fucking ashamed of the fact that this kind of stupid behavior is associated with liberal politics. 1. https://lonestarbottlecaps.com https://lonestarbottlecaps.com 2. https://www.mysanantonio.com/food/bars-drinks/article/what-happened-lone-star-bottle-caps-puzzle-missing-16210414.php https://www.mysanantonio.com/food/bars-drinks/article/what-h...
- jfengel 5y ago
  There's no such thing as a noose that's unrelated to death. That's what they're for. The puzzle may not be related to death, but the noose is. And in the US there's no such thing as a noose that's unrelated to race. They are being used, today, as racist threats. When a noose appears, lynching is the assumed meaning, and not just by black people [1]. So it's a good thing that Lone Star is taking a look at the entire project. Using a noose was a mistake. One presumably made in good faith, but a mistake nonetheless. So the right thing to do is pull not just it, but to make sure that they didn't make other mistakes -- a sign of good faith. I'm all for accepting a good and sincere apology. A lot of people have made bad and insincere apologies, and not only does that not help, it makes things worse by giving people an excuse to pretend that good apologies aren't worth doing. This is a good choice and I'd encourage people to take that. [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/554694-amazon-closing-connecticut-site-after-another-noose-found https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/554694-amazon-closi...
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    I didn't downvote you, but a noose in a locker is wildly different from making a pun about "headline news", and to suggest otherwise is foolish. "There is no such thing blah blah" - yes, there is, it's called context. Someone who feels threatened by a pun "headline news" with a noose is not properly adjusted to the adult world. Do kids not play hangman anymore? More broadly, I think twitter lowers the bar for whining and manufacturing rage. In a pre-Internet world, would that woman have cried, or otherwise been mortified at the beer top? Would she have taken a picture and sent it to the investigative reporter in Dallas where Lone Star is brewed? Or would she have gone "Huh, that's rude, how strange" and thrown it away? It's easy to get wrapped up in the hate-think, and I think this is a case of it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - verall 5y ago
      Yes, and a part of this context is that Lone Star invokes images of the old state of Texas. When they lean into this, if they are not careful, they lean into some really awful events. It's not the same as the same pun on a bottle of Snapple.

aeturnum 5y ago

>The man who pulls the lever that breaks your neck will be a dispassionate man. >And that dispassion is the very essence of justice. >For justice delivered without dispassion is always in danger of not being justice. Based on the reporting I've read on the internal cultures of police departments and the wider "law enforcement" community (federal law enforcement, prison administration, etc) I am pretty skeptical that "justice" is dispassionate. Instead, I think these groups wrap themselves in a myth of dispassion while they place thumbs (and larger things) on the scale in a way that reflects their personal beliefs and biases.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
It should probably be noted that the hangman proves to be quite passionate before the film is through.
karmanyaahm 5y ago
I think rrrrrrrrrrrryan is talking about the ideal scenario, in the real world there will always be some biases.
mariodiana 5y ago
Maybe the essence of justice is its effect, and by effect we're not talking about its effect on the accused but on the rest of society. The political science class I took back in college (over 20 years ago now) began with the Oresteia trilogy, by Aeschylus. The issue there is between "frontier justice" (actually, blood feuds) and civil justice (justice of the polis). The message there is that there can be no civilization unless the people of a society sublimate their (intrinsic?) passion for frontier justice towards civil justice. The myth, as you call it, is there to bind us as a society — as any myth does. I don't know what movie is being referred to above, but the idea from that passage doesn't originate with the movie.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  The Hateful Eight. Really long (it's more of a stage play), but like most of Tarantino's films, the dialogue is stellar.