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So, unless I miss what you're saying, is that you propose that the government own a share in every business that is created by way of "taxation". Is that not wh

So, unless I miss what you're saying, is that you propose that the government own a share in every business that is created by way of "taxation". Is that not what you're proposing in this statement? Do they also get to leverage these shares to have a vote as to the business decisions, like any other share holder does? (assuming they have enough shares in this hypothetical share tax)

ljf 5y ago
Not my idea, nor one I think is perfect, but I assume they are saying this would no be every company, just those where they would rather give shares than pay tax. No doubt they would be loads of ways to scam this though, setting up supposedly valuable companies to 'pay' a big tax bill, then rinse the company or allow it to fail while diverting profit elsewhere.
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  I was just saying, it sounds an awful lot like forced communism through taxation. A share in a company is a portion and a vote in a company, however small.
- jbay808 5y ago
  I can't think of a way to scam it, as long as they only allow this method of payment for taxes assessed on the asset itself, rather than as a substitute method of payment for other taxes owed. It would be an interesting idea to explore and could potentially be a massive boon to risky startups by allowing them to hand out equity more freely as incentives without worrying about the accompanying tax burden.
jbay808 5y ago
The government is taxing you anyway. I'm not proposing a new tax, I'm proposing more flexibility on how they accept payment. Right now, they only accept the taxes to be remitted in dollars. For simple income tax, where you're paid in dollars and hand the government a percentage, that's fine. But what if you're paying a tax on, say, some equity you were given in a startup? This can cause huge trouble for people who have illiquid assets, like equity in a private company. You have to pay tax in dollars based on a guess of the value of that equity, even though you can't trade the equity for dollars (it's not liquid). When you eventually can sell the asset, like at an IPO, its assessed value could have decreased and it might be worth even less than the taxes you already had to pay on it. That's the kind of gift you don't want to receive. I'm suggesting that, for those who are worried about that risk, the government allow you the option of handing over a percentage of the asset instead. If it ends up being worthless paper, then the government gets nothing, but on the other hand that's also the correct amount for them to get because the tax on $0 should also be $0. Most likely, the government would choose to (or perhaps by legislation could be compelled to) sell the asset at an IPO, but that's a detail. Perhaps they could also have an agency for managing and directing such assets in the public interest.

ljf 5y ago

Not my idea, nor one I think is perfect, but I assume they are saying this would no be every company, just those where they would rather give shares than pay tax. No doubt they would be loads of ways to scam this though, setting up supposedly valuable companies to 'pay' a big tax bill, then rinse the company or allow it to fail while diverting profit elsewhere.

UnpossibleJim 5y ago
I was just saying, it sounds an awful lot like forced communism through taxation. A share in a company is a portion and a vote in a company, however small.
jbay808 5y ago
I can't think of a way to scam it, as long as they only allow this method of payment for taxes assessed on the asset itself, rather than as a substitute method of payment for other taxes owed. It would be an interesting idea to explore and could potentially be a massive boon to risky startups by allowing them to hand out equity more freely as incentives without worrying about the accompanying tax burden.

jbay808 5y ago

The government is taxing you anyway. I'm not proposing a new tax, I'm proposing more flexibility on how they accept payment. Right now, they only accept the taxes to be remitted in dollars. For simple income tax, where you're paid in dollars and hand the government a percentage, that's fine. But what if you're paying a tax on, say, some equity you were given in a startup? This can cause huge trouble for people who have illiquid assets, like equity in a private company. You have to pay tax in dollars based on a guess of the value of that equity, even though you can't trade the equity for dollars (it's not liquid). When you eventually can sell the asset, like at an IPO, its assessed value could have decreased and it might be worth even less than the taxes you already had to pay on it. That's the kind of gift you don't want to receive. I'm suggesting that, for those who are worried about that risk, the government allow you the option of handing over a percentage of the asset instead. If it ends up being worthless paper, then the government gets nothing, but on the other hand that's also the correct amount for them to get because the tax on $0 should also be $0. Most likely, the government would choose to (or perhaps by legislation could be compelled to) sell the asset at an IPO, but that's a detail. Perhaps they could also have an agency for managing and directing such assets in the public interest.