5 ms·

> I guess this is the kind of truck you get when you don’t really need a truck Snobby.

mywittyname 5y ago
That's truck "enthusiasts" for you, a good proportion of them are elitists. They love to pretend that owning a truck means that one must go off-roading and tow something giant to some outdoorsy spot every weekend. Nevermind that the people who need "work trucks" buy vans a large proportion of the time because securing tools is really important for people who work out of their vehicles. Suburbanites buying trucks need space for runs to LowKEA Depot and the occasional furniture purchase. Offroading capability is limited to driving in a field/yard. This thing will tow a small trailer/boat without any issues. It's the perfect truck for most buyers, but the F150 is safe because "truck enthusiasts" will never accept this. In 15 years when fleets of these are cheaply available on the used market, we will probably see a surge of popularity from younger people for them.
- nicbou 5y ago
  It seems like America is ready for small European passenger vans. The Renault Kangoo and its equivalents are perfect for that.
  - bozzcl 5y ago
    That and hot hatches, pretty please.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Ford make tons of hatchbacks in Europe - it's their main thing they're known for - not sure why they don't sell them in the US.
      - mywittyname 5y ago
        Americans love hot hatches. In fact, hot hatches were the last models to of hatches to be sold in the USA. The Fiesta ST lived on longer than the Fiesta, as did the Focus ST/RS. It's not just Ford either, VW only sells the GTI and Golf R in the USA, not the base Golf. But the compact crossover has displaced the normal hatchback in the USA. So while Europe gets the Focus hatch, the USA gets the Ecosport. This isn't really an America-only trend, but it's happening all over the world. One would think that Toyota's new Corolla Cross crossover would be a purely American offering, but it's actually offered in SE Asia and South American markets. There's not really a good reason to go with a hatchback over the crossover variant, unless you're going for performance. So companies are introducing crossover versions of their hatchbacks, which slowly cannibalize sales of the original hatch, which gets killed off.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  This is how most/all first owners act. You think the first owner of a 3-row SUV is jamming six kids in the thing and towing a camper? Of course not. The vehicle won't see that until it gets several owners down the economic ladder. Ditto for pretty much every measurable capacity of a vehicle. The kind of people who can afford new cars can afford to buy more vehicle than they need. And then more of those same kind of people write obnoxious and long internet comments complaining about it.
justusthane 5y ago
I mean, he's not wrong. It's not going to come close to the towing or carrying capacity of a "real" pickup (standard FWD?), but on the other hand a huge percentage of pickup owners don't need that capability. Question is whether they'll recognize that, or whether it'll be "But I need a real truck!"
- fred_is_fred 5y ago
  I claim that a lot of people own trucks because their friends own trucks and owning a truck is part of their identity. Drive through any suburb in the midwest or south and you will see these - mostly men - who don't want to be seen in sedan. Is this truckly enough to check the box for that group? If not, then I wonder what the target market is for this.
  - EForEndeavour 5y ago
    I was going to comment that signaling identity in a group by possessing expensive objects sounds so exhausting. Then I reminded myself how much time and money I've sunk into terminal and code editor color schemes, and mechanical keyboards that are less practical and harder to use than my laptop's built-in one.
    - fred_is_fred 5y ago
      If you've sunk a new F-150 (+gas) worth of money into keyboards then I'd really like to see your collection.
  - vgeek 5y ago
    After encountering a lot of the "truck as an identity not utility" people, many couldn't tell you the displacement of their engine (or even a turbo 4 vs v6 vs which one of the v8 options), if it is FWD/RWD vs 4wd or other relevant features that aren't prominently featured in the marketing materials. They may use it to haul a piece of furniture or plants from Home Depot twice a year, but otherwise they'd probably be better off with a car for the ride comfort/fuel economy/lower opex. In CA/Chicago/NY the primary status symbols are Audi/Tesla/etc., but in flyover country, it is 100% a giant pickup absent of pickup only function (heavy towing, large item hauling, extensive offroading) use. This _should_ in theory compete more against the 2nd generation Ridgeline in terms of compact pickup and FWD drivetrain far as utility goes, but at almost half the price, much better fuel economy and unknown reliability as the wildcard?
culopatin 5y ago
I don’t know where this is coming from, but I can tell you is not at all what I’m saying. I don’t need a truck because I don’t want 15mpg. I’m rarely limited by the cargo space of my sedan, and I much rather drive something that is easier to move through air and easier to park anywhere I go. I also don’t go off-road to need ground clearance or 4WD. But for 19k and 40mpg, this truck looks very appealing for those rare occasions when I could use it, since the downsides seem to be reduced. I could move my bikes easier, or load a kayak, or bring bags of dirt for the garden without overthinking it.

That's truck "enthusiasts" for you, a good proportion of them are elitists. They love to pretend that owning a truck means that one must go off-roading and tow something giant to some outdoorsy spot every weekend. Nevermind that the people who need "work trucks" buy vans a large proportion of the time because securing tools is really important for people who work out of their vehicles. Suburbanites buying trucks need space for runs to LowKEA Depot and the occasional furniture purchase. Offroading capability is limited to driving in a field/yard. This thing will tow a small trailer/boat without any issues. It's the perfect truck for most buyers, but the F150 is safe because "truck enthusiasts" will never accept this. In 15 years when fleets of these are cheaply available on the used market, we will probably see a surge of popularity from younger people for them.

nicbou 5y ago
It seems like America is ready for small European passenger vans. The Renault Kangoo and its equivalents are perfect for that.
- bozzcl 5y ago
  That and hot hatches, pretty please.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Ford make tons of hatchbacks in Europe - it's their main thing they're known for - not sure why they don't sell them in the US.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      Americans love hot hatches. In fact, hot hatches were the last models to of hatches to be sold in the USA. The Fiesta ST lived on longer than the Fiesta, as did the Focus ST/RS. It's not just Ford either, VW only sells the GTI and Golf R in the USA, not the base Golf. But the compact crossover has displaced the normal hatchback in the USA. So while Europe gets the Focus hatch, the USA gets the Ecosport. This isn't really an America-only trend, but it's happening all over the world. One would think that Toyota's new Corolla Cross crossover would be a purely American offering, but it's actually offered in SE Asia and South American markets. There's not really a good reason to go with a hatchback over the crossover variant, unless you're going for performance. So companies are introducing crossover versions of their hatchbacks, which slowly cannibalize sales of the original hatch, which gets killed off.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
This is how most/all first owners act. You think the first owner of a 3-row SUV is jamming six kids in the thing and towing a camper? Of course not. The vehicle won't see that until it gets several owners down the economic ladder. Ditto for pretty much every measurable capacity of a vehicle. The kind of people who can afford new cars can afford to buy more vehicle than they need. And then more of those same kind of people write obnoxious and long internet comments complaining about it.

justusthane 5y ago

I mean, he's not wrong. It's not going to come close to the towing or carrying capacity of a "real" pickup (standard FWD?), but on the other hand a huge percentage of pickup owners don't need that capability. Question is whether they'll recognize that, or whether it'll be "But I need a real truck!"

fred_is_fred 5y ago
I claim that a lot of people own trucks because their friends own trucks and owning a truck is part of their identity. Drive through any suburb in the midwest or south and you will see these - mostly men - who don't want to be seen in sedan. Is this truckly enough to check the box for that group? If not, then I wonder what the target market is for this.
- EForEndeavour 5y ago
  I was going to comment that signaling identity in a group by possessing expensive objects sounds so exhausting. Then I reminded myself how much time and money I've sunk into terminal and code editor color schemes, and mechanical keyboards that are less practical and harder to use than my laptop's built-in one.
  - fred_is_fred 5y ago
    If you've sunk a new F-150 (+gas) worth of money into keyboards then I'd really like to see your collection.
- vgeek 5y ago
  After encountering a lot of the "truck as an identity not utility" people, many couldn't tell you the displacement of their engine (or even a turbo 4 vs v6 vs which one of the v8 options), if it is FWD/RWD vs 4wd or other relevant features that aren't prominently featured in the marketing materials. They may use it to haul a piece of furniture or plants from Home Depot twice a year, but otherwise they'd probably be better off with a car for the ride comfort/fuel economy/lower opex. In CA/Chicago/NY the primary status symbols are Audi/Tesla/etc., but in flyover country, it is 100% a giant pickup absent of pickup only function (heavy towing, large item hauling, extensive offroading) use. This _should_ in theory compete more against the 2nd generation Ridgeline in terms of compact pickup and FWD drivetrain far as utility goes, but at almost half the price, much better fuel economy and unknown reliability as the wildcard?

culopatin 5y ago

I don’t know where this is coming from, but I can tell you is not at all what I’m saying. I don’t need a truck because I don’t want 15mpg. I’m rarely limited by the cargo space of my sedan, and I much rather drive something that is easier to move through air and easier to park anywhere I go. I also don’t go off-road to need ground clearance or 4WD. But for 19k and 40mpg, this truck looks very appealing for those rare occasions when I could use it, since the downsides seem to be reduced. I could move my bikes easier, or load a kayak, or bring bags of dirt for the garden without overthinking it.