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Agreed and this has been true forever. The incredible amount of work that has to go into https://github.com/fastlane/fastlane/releases https://github.com/fastl

by dkarp 5y ago

Agreed and this has been true forever. The incredible amount of work that has to go into https://github.com/fastlane/fastlane/releases https://github.com/fastlane/fastlane/releases always impresses me. APIs and authentication is ever changing all because Apple refuse to embrace modern devops. They have this idea that apps are produced by lone devs in their bedrooms and the process is designed for them.

pjmlp 5y ago
Which is how a large majority of native apps on iOS are developed. Not everyone needs 100 team members for a messaging app.
- dkarp 5y ago
  Sure, there are loads of independent developers and that's great and tooling should work for them. The majority of the top 100 native iOS apps are developed by teams of people working together. Apple unnecessarily makes it difficult for that group, which creates a barrier to entry for more sophisticated app development which is bad for the ecosystem.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Most of those already have their own in-house solution, https://uk.pcmag.com/gallery/130620/the-best-iphone-apps-for-2021 https://uk.pcmag.com/gallery/130620/the-best-iphone-apps-for...
    - dkarp 5y ago
      I'm not sure what you're saying with that link. Can you clarify?
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        The top 100 are those classical 100 people team for a message app kind of companies, hardly the target market of this feature, they already have their DevOps pipeline using Terraform with K8s on Kata Containers, and immutable builds that scale across the cluster.
        dkarp 5y ago
        Right, which is the point of the post I originally replied to and also my point. They cannot use that DevOps pipeline to build iOS apps, sign iOS apps or deploy to the Apple App Store. Shopify detailed the hoops they had to jump through a few years back (https://shopify.engineering/scaling-ios-ci-with-anka https://shopify.engineering/scaling-ios-ci-with-anka) where they specifically say that CI for iOS has to be done entirely differently to the rest of their infrastructure: It’s the only piece of infrastructure at Shopify that doesn’t run on top of Linux. We can leverage the same Google Cloud infrastructure we already use in production for our Android build nodes. Unfortunately, Cloud providers such as Amazon Web Services (AWS) and Google Cloud Platform (GCP) don’t provide infrastructure that can run macOS. You benefit from using these tools almost immediately when you're >1 developer and that's where XCode Cloud may be helpful, the 1-5 developer team size. But you're still in trouble if you are using something like React Native/Flutter/Kotlin to build iOS and Android apps and don't want to maintain separate CI processes.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        The target demographic of Apple is developers using Swift, Objective-C and native OS APIs directly.

by dkarp 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago

Which is how a large majority of native apps on iOS are developed. Not everyone needs 100 team members for a messaging app.

dkarp 5y ago
Sure, there are loads of independent developers and that's great and tooling should work for them. The majority of the top 100 native iOS apps are developed by teams of people working together. Apple unnecessarily makes it difficult for that group, which creates a barrier to entry for more sophisticated app development which is bad for the ecosystem.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Most of those already have their own in-house solution, https://uk.pcmag.com/gallery/130620/the-best-iphone-apps-for-2021 https://uk.pcmag.com/gallery/130620/the-best-iphone-apps-for...
  - dkarp 5y ago
    I'm not sure what you're saying with that link. Can you clarify?
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      The top 100 are those classical 100 people team for a message app kind of companies, hardly the target market of this feature, they already have their DevOps pipeline using Terraform with K8s on Kata Containers, and immutable builds that scale across the cluster.
      - dkarp 5y ago
        Right, which is the point of the post I originally replied to and also my point. They cannot use that DevOps pipeline to build iOS apps, sign iOS apps or deploy to the Apple App Store. Shopify detailed the hoops they had to jump through a few years back (https://shopify.engineering/scaling-ios-ci-with-anka https://shopify.engineering/scaling-ios-ci-with-anka) where they specifically say that CI for iOS has to be done entirely differently to the rest of their infrastructure: It’s the only piece of infrastructure at Shopify that doesn’t run on top of Linux. We can leverage the same Google Cloud infrastructure we already use in production for our Android build nodes. Unfortunately, Cloud providers such as Amazon Web Services (AWS) and Google Cloud Platform (GCP) don’t provide infrastructure that can run macOS. You benefit from using these tools almost immediately when you're >1 developer and that's where XCode Cloud may be helpful, the 1-5 developer team size. But you're still in trouble if you are using something like React Native/Flutter/Kotlin to build iOS and Android apps and don't want to maintain separate CI processes.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        The target demographic of Apple is developers using Swift, Objective-C and native OS APIs directly.