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I don't think these vague emotional statements are constructive. The rules outlined in the article apply to everyone, not just the rich, and they should be fix

I don't think these vague emotional statements are constructive. The rules outlined in the article apply to everyone, not just the rich, and they should be fixed for everyone, not just the rich. In this case leaking Jeff Bezos' tax returns targeted one individual and provided no new useful information. It's exactly what we already expected about his taxes. ...and frankly, the "rich are evil - look how they don't pay taxes on unrealized gains" is a huge distraction from fixing the actual problems with the tax system. We need to eliminate foreign tax havens, and severely limit non-profit "Foundations".

whb07 5y ago
“We need to eliminate foreign tax havens” or more succinctly: “We need to condemn the families and businesses in places like those tiny island nations in the Caribbean to more poverty” Those tax havens exist because they realize that a very real thing they can offer as a service is a place to domicile a business and capital. Not everyone wants to go to Ireland for its nice beaches you know.
- rrss 5y ago
  How does Google funneling billions of dollars in revenue through Bermuda help the families there who are living in poverty? Google's only presence in Bermuda was a P.O. box.
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    When you use Bermuda like that, you pay various fees to do so (registration fees, banking fees), and money ultimately goes into the national budget from that. The state then invests in infrastructure and some job creation from that national budget. Similarly, when Caribbean nations sell citizenship to foreigners seeking easier travel or tax optimization (another avenue they have explored into order to diversify their economies), the foreigner typically pays a fee in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for the passport, and that goes into the national budget.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - whb07 5y ago
    lawyers, buildings, contracts, the person selling keys for PO Box, guards to watch over your PO Box, mail system. Plus all the other things on top that are associated to flying in to Bermuda for the week of business to setup your PO BOX. Oh and then there’s the airport, staff to maintain the airport. All that plus more for a simple PO box
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      It seems incredibly unseemly to go after the airport staff in the Bahamas more than the tax dodgers you’re angry at.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Retric 5y ago
Rules aren’t set in stone, they can change based on leaks like this. Assuming people find this information objectionable that’s a reasonable justification to publish. In much the same way that leaking classified documents about questionable activities is morally justified, though illegal. Otherwise stamping secret on any evidence of say torture would work.
- mc32 5y ago
  I find the leak objectionable. It doesn’t disclose any nefarious doings or tax evasion. All it does is verify what we already know. No revelation. So this is more about shaming the witch rather than showing the witch did witchery.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "All it does is verify what we already know." Wait. What who already knows? I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who read this article did not already know the information contained within. As such the article serves to educate a lot of people, which is a positive development.
    - mc32 5y ago
      I don’t think the author needed leaked data to present their objections to tax minimization.
      - ethbr0 5y ago
        They absolutely did. That something is legally within the bounds of the US tax code is public knowledge. That ultra-wealthy utilize something to an extent is not public knowledge. Which cuts to one of the central issues with viewing the US tax code as democratic: there's almost no transparency of use. The public might feel very different about a particular tax rule if they knew small businesses primarily used it, vs if they knew major corporations used it to shield 90% of their profits. The IRS should do a better job of anonymizing actual tax reports, and reporting out on patterns in aggregate.
deelowe 5y ago
At this point, I've come to believe that the real goal has nothing to do with actually fixing the system. I see it time and time again where articles like this get written and the proposals that follow focus solely on increasing income tax and proposing some form of a wealth tax. Nothing about closing the loop holes that allow this situation to happen in the first place.
scubbo 5y ago
> In this case leaking Jeff Bezos' tax returns targeted one individual and provided no new useful information. It's exactly what we already expected about his taxes. I completely agree with your overall point, but this statement is not true. Solid concrete evidence of what we "already expected" _is_ new information. (also, as other commenters have pointed out - what _you_ already expected is not necessarily what the average person already expected)
NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
>In this case leaking Jeff Bezos' tax returns targeted one individual and provided no new useful information. It's exactly what we already expected about his taxes. I think when he owns the Washington post, it becomes of the public interest. Hell, in Norway literally everyone's salary is public information. Hasn't seemed to do them any harm either.

whb07 5y ago

“We need to eliminate foreign tax havens” or more succinctly: “We need to condemn the families and businesses in places like those tiny island nations in the Caribbean to more poverty” Those tax havens exist because they realize that a very real thing they can offer as a service is a place to domicile a business and capital. Not everyone wants to go to Ireland for its nice beaches you know.

rrss 5y ago
How does Google funneling billions of dollars in revenue through Bermuda help the families there who are living in poverty? Google's only presence in Bermuda was a P.O. box.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  When you use Bermuda like that, you pay various fees to do so (registration fees, banking fees), and money ultimately goes into the national budget from that. The state then invests in infrastructure and some job creation from that national budget. Similarly, when Caribbean nations sell citizenship to foreigners seeking easier travel or tax optimization (another avenue they have explored into order to diversify their economies), the foreigner typically pays a fee in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for the passport, and that goes into the national budget.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- whb07 5y ago
  lawyers, buildings, contracts, the person selling keys for PO Box, guards to watch over your PO Box, mail system. Plus all the other things on top that are associated to flying in to Bermuda for the week of business to setup your PO BOX. Oh and then there’s the airport, staff to maintain the airport. All that plus more for a simple PO box
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    It seems incredibly unseemly to go after the airport staff in the Bahamas more than the tax dodgers you’re angry at.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Retric 5y ago

Rules aren’t set in stone, they can change based on leaks like this. Assuming people find this information objectionable that’s a reasonable justification to publish. In much the same way that leaking classified documents about questionable activities is morally justified, though illegal. Otherwise stamping secret on any evidence of say torture would work.

mc32 5y ago
I find the leak objectionable. It doesn’t disclose any nefarious doings or tax evasion. All it does is verify what we already know. No revelation. So this is more about shaming the witch rather than showing the witch did witchery.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "All it does is verify what we already know." Wait. What who already knows? I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who read this article did not already know the information contained within. As such the article serves to educate a lot of people, which is a positive development.
  - mc32 5y ago
    I don’t think the author needed leaked data to present their objections to tax minimization.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      They absolutely did. That something is legally within the bounds of the US tax code is public knowledge. That ultra-wealthy utilize something to an extent is not public knowledge. Which cuts to one of the central issues with viewing the US tax code as democratic: there's almost no transparency of use. The public might feel very different about a particular tax rule if they knew small businesses primarily used it, vs if they knew major corporations used it to shield 90% of their profits. The IRS should do a better job of anonymizing actual tax reports, and reporting out on patterns in aggregate.

deelowe 5y ago

At this point, I've come to believe that the real goal has nothing to do with actually fixing the system. I see it time and time again where articles like this get written and the proposals that follow focus solely on increasing income tax and proposing some form of a wealth tax. Nothing about closing the loop holes that allow this situation to happen in the first place.

scubbo 5y ago

> In this case leaking Jeff Bezos' tax returns targeted one individual and provided no new useful information. It's exactly what we already expected about his taxes. I completely agree with your overall point, but this statement is not true. Solid concrete evidence of what we "already expected" _is_ new information. (also, as other commenters have pointed out - what _you_ already expected is not necessarily what the average person already expected)

NaturalPhallacy 5y ago

>In this case leaking Jeff Bezos' tax returns targeted one individual and provided no new useful information. It's exactly what we already expected about his taxes. I think when he owns the Washington post, it becomes of the public interest. Hell, in Norway literally everyone's salary is public information. Hasn't seemed to do them any harm either.