6 ms·

Yes I quit social media a couple of years ago and agree with pretty much everything the author says. Social media environments encourage incendiary discussion b

Yes I quit social media a couple of years ago and agree with pretty much everything the author says. Social media environments encourage incendiary discussion because it fuels upvotes and general attention. Most people won't take the time to consider a more valid grey opinion because they've jumped to a conclusion and are busy attacking someone, or because it won't get as much attention. The first thing that came back for me after quitting social media was that "slow thinking" brain that tries to empathize with all sides rather than just call out some "evil" and check out intellectually.

hnthrowaway2 5y ago
It is a bit like "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story". I have felt the urge to respond with something witty and scathing to a story online, only to realise after a moment's reflection that my response would be irrelevant in several scenarios. The disappointment that follows for wasting a witty response...that takes some resisting.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  My struggle is finding something that brings out the wit like a good tweet so I can put it to a more productive purpose. I've written novels worth of tweets because there's just enough good stuff to reply to that it's hard to leave without an alternative.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  The amount of comments here on HN that i never post or delete.... That's largely thanks to HN being quite strictly policed.
goalieca 5y ago
I'm on linked-in for obvious reasons but i largely ignore the posts. I don't get how so many people are political on a site largely concerning itself with employment. Other than that, reddit was the last piece of social media that i quit last year. I consider it more of a social media service than an a forum for discussion.
- TheHypnotist 5y ago
  LinkedIn is chock full of people with bullshit professional titles posting nonsense. Half the time I wonder if they're bots.
  - ta988 5y ago
    They may not be but social media make people act like bots. Humans just optimize for whatever reward they are after (likes, followers...)
- chestervonwinch 5y ago
  I enjoy LinkedIn for keeping up with old colleagues. But -- and I hate to be too sour on people who are earnestly excited about sharing their career progress -- everyone seems to announce every minor career move on LinkedIn in posts that read like a Grammy acceptance speech.
- ebcode 5y ago
  > I don't get how so many people are political on a site largely concerning itself with employment. Because employment, like almost everything else in life, is political[0]. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politics https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politics (see definition 5 a, especially)
weezin 5y ago
I recently deleted a lot of social media accounts. My concerns are any accounts I created for important things using social media accounts, and losing track of what behavior is publicly acceptable in the ever changing Overton window. I feel like the benefits to productivity and mental health will exceed those concerns greatly though.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  >> "losing track of what behavior is publicly acceptable in the ever changing Overton window." A good skill to cultivate for this worry is listening without interrupting or judging when you get feedback. Often what someone who feels hurt wants, regardless of the merit of that hurt, is to feel heard. Listening is timeless. "I don't fully understand, but I hear you." Sometimes the best you can do is get someone to move you out of their enemy bucket, but that's often enough. I'm often on the other side of that because there are parts of me that people don't get, but often feel qualified to speak on. The things they say aren't what hurt. It's the often aggressive refusal to accept the limits of their knowledge and experience that hurts. Hubris is the timeless enemy of listening. Real-world example: there was a now-closed Mastodon instance where it came out that the admin did a long, rambly thread where she confidently explained AMAB nonbinary people are just trans women who are too cowardly to transition. There's an interesting discussion to be had on how to define "woman" and where people draw the line on identifying as nonbinary vs woman vs nonbinary woman, but it doesn't start with a thread like that.
  - weezin 5y ago
    Thank you for sharing, I think what I'm also worried about is lack of sharing, for example the black squares on instagram. I was called out for not posting one (I had 1 picture on IG from 3 years ago). Although I imagine that wouldn't have happened had I deleted IG prior. I just can see "I don't fully understand" when asked about something will become willful ignorance to people that deem the context unavoidable.
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      I think I'll have to take my own advice and say that, within the limits of my experience hanging out with lots of other marginalized people, this isn't something I see. It mostly seems to come from Well-Intentioned Allies™ outside the worlds I inhabit, and the people who aggro at folks who don't make the gesture are a subset of that. What I do for gestures aimed at marginalizations I don't share is listen to the people they're aimed at, but that can be hard if you aren't in a community where they exist in sufficient numbers and are comfortable sharing for a broad cross-section of opinions. I didn't even know any other out and vocal queer people until I started hanging out with furries, and even they have trouble making space for people of color to be out and vocal. I don't have a good solution to finding that cross-section, so I can see how getting off social media entirely is the safest path.
emc3 5y ago
> more valid grey opinion What makes the "grey" opinion "more valid"?
- cindarin 5y ago
  because the person you're replying to agrees with that opinion at the exclusion of all others
- tristor 5y ago
  It may not be. In fact, I'd suggest discussing the idea of validity in relation to opinions is probably fraught with peril itself. That said, any opinion which is more close to the unbridled truth is generally more structurally sound (and maybe that's a good hallmark for "validity") than opinions which are more sensationalized. "Grey opinions" are essentially the opposite of sensationalized. I'm not the original commenter, but if I read them correctly, I believe they mean that the least sensational and most deliberate opinions are more likely to fully account for the truth of the matter (and hence be "more" valid) than those opinions which sensationalize.
- riebschlager 5y ago
  I would assume the author of that comment was using "grey" to describe an opinion that is more nuanced and carefully considered. A black/white opinion would be hyperbolic or simply expressed to provoke reaction. So if that's what a grey opinion is... then yeah. That's more valid. Especially if you value conversations aimed at exploring some reality rather than performative shouting matches.
bluGill 5y ago
I found facebook became more valuable to me once I decided I would only post about things I want my friends to know. That is pictures of my kid's new bike, or a video of the baby babbling. Facebook does a very good job of ensuring my close friends and family keep up with the cute little things in life. I'm still working on getting out of all the groups that waste space. Sadly many useful things have moved to facebook, and while good for facebook (more ads), other forums function better for keeping up with my hobbies - except for the lack of people checking them.
- wussboy 5y ago
  Interesting. I had the opposite experience to this. Even though all I ever wanted to know about was what was happening to my friend's kids, my feed was taken over with political and social justice outrage. Outrage sells.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    It matters what everyone clicks like on. So you need to be careful there, and also help others be careful. There is way too much political outrage for sure. You just have to wade through it. Hopefully you can join me in spreading the facebook is about family message and get others to stop posting politics. (this is hard, it is so tempting to bait your political friends)
    - Andrex 5y ago
      > It matters what everyone clicks like on. So you need to be careful there, and also help others be careful. The OP's title, "Don't Let Social Media Think for You," applies in this context too. Now you can't even click "Like" without being careful -- to be fair I avoid searching political topics and other sports teams on Google unless I'm incognito. I feel like we're increasingly trapped in a box by these algorithms and the need to keep them appeased.
- asciident 5y ago
  I wish there was a way to turn off "external content", and only view content created by your friends. If my friend has an opinion about something (even if political, or a social issue), and they post it, I'm interested in reading. But I don't care if they are just posting a link to content that some stranger wrote, or a meme that someone else is spreading. It seems like social media has intentionally blurred the lines between "posting your content" vs "spreading someone else's content".
dharmach 5y ago
On the flip side, all with nuanced, grey opinions will be left with no motivation to act and the fanatic, opinionated people will act. In a war if the leader has to select an army of thinkers & intellectuals versus that of fanatics & fundamentalists, which one will he choose?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  Quite true. It's also the case that some situations demand a timely response, eg when a violation of some fundamental principle is occurring and ought to be interrupted. Intellectualizing everything can become an excuse for passivity. To be clear, if one is uncertain about what's going on it's generally better to hold back, but there are circumstances where someone does comprehend an issue clearly and simply wants to shirk an unpleasant engagement with it.

hnthrowaway2 5y ago

It is a bit like "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story". I have felt the urge to respond with something witty and scathing to a story online, only to realise after a moment's reflection that my response would be irrelevant in several scenarios. The disappointment that follows for wasting a witty response...that takes some resisting.

mkr-hn 5y ago
My struggle is finding something that brings out the wit like a good tweet so I can put it to a more productive purpose. I've written novels worth of tweets because there's just enough good stuff to reply to that it's hard to leave without an alternative.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
The amount of comments here on HN that i never post or delete.... That's largely thanks to HN being quite strictly policed.

goalieca 5y ago

I'm on linked-in for obvious reasons but i largely ignore the posts. I don't get how so many people are political on a site largely concerning itself with employment. Other than that, reddit was the last piece of social media that i quit last year. I consider it more of a social media service than an a forum for discussion.

TheHypnotist 5y ago
LinkedIn is chock full of people with bullshit professional titles posting nonsense. Half the time I wonder if they're bots.
- ta988 5y ago
  They may not be but social media make people act like bots. Humans just optimize for whatever reward they are after (likes, followers...)
chestervonwinch 5y ago
I enjoy LinkedIn for keeping up with old colleagues. But -- and I hate to be too sour on people who are earnestly excited about sharing their career progress -- everyone seems to announce every minor career move on LinkedIn in posts that read like a Grammy acceptance speech.
ebcode 5y ago
> I don't get how so many people are political on a site largely concerning itself with employment. Because employment, like almost everything else in life, is political[0]. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politics https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politics (see definition 5 a, especially)

weezin 5y ago

I recently deleted a lot of social media accounts. My concerns are any accounts I created for important things using social media accounts, and losing track of what behavior is publicly acceptable in the ever changing Overton window. I feel like the benefits to productivity and mental health will exceed those concerns greatly though.

mkr-hn 5y ago
>> "losing track of what behavior is publicly acceptable in the ever changing Overton window." A good skill to cultivate for this worry is listening without interrupting or judging when you get feedback. Often what someone who feels hurt wants, regardless of the merit of that hurt, is to feel heard. Listening is timeless. "I don't fully understand, but I hear you." Sometimes the best you can do is get someone to move you out of their enemy bucket, but that's often enough. I'm often on the other side of that because there are parts of me that people don't get, but often feel qualified to speak on. The things they say aren't what hurt. It's the often aggressive refusal to accept the limits of their knowledge and experience that hurts. Hubris is the timeless enemy of listening. Real-world example: there was a now-closed Mastodon instance where it came out that the admin did a long, rambly thread where she confidently explained AMAB nonbinary people are just trans women who are too cowardly to transition. There's an interesting discussion to be had on how to define "woman" and where people draw the line on identifying as nonbinary vs woman vs nonbinary woman, but it doesn't start with a thread like that.
- weezin 5y ago
  Thank you for sharing, I think what I'm also worried about is lack of sharing, for example the black squares on instagram. I was called out for not posting one (I had 1 picture on IG from 3 years ago). Although I imagine that wouldn't have happened had I deleted IG prior. I just can see "I don't fully understand" when asked about something will become willful ignorance to people that deem the context unavoidable.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    I think I'll have to take my own advice and say that, within the limits of my experience hanging out with lots of other marginalized people, this isn't something I see. It mostly seems to come from Well-Intentioned Allies™ outside the worlds I inhabit, and the people who aggro at folks who don't make the gesture are a subset of that. What I do for gestures aimed at marginalizations I don't share is listen to the people they're aimed at, but that can be hard if you aren't in a community where they exist in sufficient numbers and are comfortable sharing for a broad cross-section of opinions. I didn't even know any other out and vocal queer people until I started hanging out with furries, and even they have trouble making space for people of color to be out and vocal. I don't have a good solution to finding that cross-section, so I can see how getting off social media entirely is the safest path.

emc3 5y ago

> more valid grey opinion What makes the "grey" opinion "more valid"?

cindarin 5y ago
because the person you're replying to agrees with that opinion at the exclusion of all others
tristor 5y ago
It may not be. In fact, I'd suggest discussing the idea of validity in relation to opinions is probably fraught with peril itself. That said, any opinion which is more close to the unbridled truth is generally more structurally sound (and maybe that's a good hallmark for "validity") than opinions which are more sensationalized. "Grey opinions" are essentially the opposite of sensationalized. I'm not the original commenter, but if I read them correctly, I believe they mean that the least sensational and most deliberate opinions are more likely to fully account for the truth of the matter (and hence be "more" valid) than those opinions which sensationalize.
riebschlager 5y ago
I would assume the author of that comment was using "grey" to describe an opinion that is more nuanced and carefully considered. A black/white opinion would be hyperbolic or simply expressed to provoke reaction. So if that's what a grey opinion is... then yeah. That's more valid. Especially if you value conversations aimed at exploring some reality rather than performative shouting matches.

bluGill 5y ago

I found facebook became more valuable to me once I decided I would only post about things I want my friends to know. That is pictures of my kid's new bike, or a video of the baby babbling. Facebook does a very good job of ensuring my close friends and family keep up with the cute little things in life. I'm still working on getting out of all the groups that waste space. Sadly many useful things have moved to facebook, and while good for facebook (more ads), other forums function better for keeping up with my hobbies - except for the lack of people checking them.

wussboy 5y ago
Interesting. I had the opposite experience to this. Even though all I ever wanted to know about was what was happening to my friend's kids, my feed was taken over with political and social justice outrage. Outrage sells.
- bluGill 5y ago
  It matters what everyone clicks like on. So you need to be careful there, and also help others be careful. There is way too much political outrage for sure. You just have to wade through it. Hopefully you can join me in spreading the facebook is about family message and get others to stop posting politics. (this is hard, it is so tempting to bait your political friends)
  - Andrex 5y ago
    > It matters what everyone clicks like on. So you need to be careful there, and also help others be careful. The OP's title, "Don't Let Social Media Think for You," applies in this context too. Now you can't even click "Like" without being careful -- to be fair I avoid searching political topics and other sports teams on Google unless I'm incognito. I feel like we're increasingly trapped in a box by these algorithms and the need to keep them appeased.
asciident 5y ago
I wish there was a way to turn off "external content", and only view content created by your friends. If my friend has an opinion about something (even if political, or a social issue), and they post it, I'm interested in reading. But I don't care if they are just posting a link to content that some stranger wrote, or a meme that someone else is spreading. It seems like social media has intentionally blurred the lines between "posting your content" vs "spreading someone else's content".

dharmach 5y ago

On the flip side, all with nuanced, grey opinions will be left with no motivation to act and the fanatic, opinionated people will act. In a war if the leader has to select an army of thinkers & intellectuals versus that of fanatics & fundamentalists, which one will he choose?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
anigbrowl 5y ago
Quite true. It's also the case that some situations demand a timely response, eg when a violation of some fundamental principle is occurring and ought to be interrupted. Intellectualizing everything can become an excuse for passivity. To be clear, if one is uncertain about what's going on it's generally better to hold back, but there are circumstances where someone does comprehend an issue clearly and simply wants to shirk an unpleasant engagement with it.