4 ms·

>Apple can read all of your iMessages and texts out of your non-e2e iCloud Backups You are conflating iMessage in iCloud with iCloud Backup. If you have iMessa

>Apple can read all of your iMessages and texts out of your non-e2e iCloud Backups You are conflating iMessage in iCloud with iCloud Backup. If you have iMessage enabled in iCloud, your message history is no longer under your sole control. If you have iMessage in iCloud disabled, and iCloud Backup disabled, nobody has your messages except you and the recipient. (If they have it enabled then your messages with them will be stored that way.) I personally use iMazing for automated local backups to my own equipment, and have iCloud Backup disabled.

sneak 5y ago
> You are conflating iMessage in iCloud with iCloud Backup. I'm not. MIC on, being the default, puts the MIC secret key used for sync into the iCloud Backup. This means after the first nightly backup, Apple can read your iMessages in realtime as they are synced via MIC. > If you have iMessage in iCloud disabled, and iCloud Backup disabled, nobody has your messages except you and the recipient. Yes, and these settings default to on, and resultantly virtually every iMessage recipient has both of these settings turned on, which means that Apple receives your iMessages from the other end of the conversation, even if you have them off. Again, we are back to the original claim: Apple can read all of your iMessages in real-time. I also have iCloud disabled and do local backups. I also have FaceTime and iMessage disabled for this reason. I also have an external VPN router that is used for all Apple device traffic that blocks push service connections and other telemetry collectors (xp.apple.com, pancake.apple.com, et c).
- ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
  You are spouting bullshit which is directly contradicted by their technical security architecture documentation; I suggest you stop with the FUD.
  - sneak 5y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 > Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
      This directly contradicts what you previously said, which is the point I was trying to make; thank you for also having made it for me: >When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.
      - sneak 5y ago
        Nobody you're iMessaging with has iCloud Backup turned off. Apple is still getting ~100% of the iMessages you send and receive.
        ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
        You are misunderstanding (or deliberately misrepresenting) the architecture; please read the last half of page 109 and the first half of page 110 of their guide [0]. [0]: https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_GB/apple-platform-security-guide-b.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_GB/app...

sneak 5y ago

> You are conflating iMessage in iCloud with iCloud Backup. I'm not. MIC on, being the default, puts the MIC secret key used for sync into the iCloud Backup. This means after the first nightly backup, Apple can read your iMessages in realtime as they are synced via MIC. > If you have iMessage in iCloud disabled, and iCloud Backup disabled, nobody has your messages except you and the recipient. Yes, and these settings default to on, and resultantly virtually every iMessage recipient has both of these settings turned on, which means that Apple receives your iMessages from the other end of the conversation, even if you have them off. Again, we are back to the original claim: Apple can read all of your iMessages in real-time. I also have iCloud disabled and do local backups. I also have FaceTime and iMessage disabled for this reason. I also have an external VPN router that is used for all Apple device traffic that blocks push service connections and other telemetry collectors (xp.apple.com, pancake.apple.com, et c).

ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
You are spouting bullshit which is directly contradicted by their technical security architecture documentation; I suggest you stop with the FUD.
- sneak 5y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 > Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
    This directly contradicts what you previously said, which is the point I was trying to make; thank you for also having made it for me: >When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.
    - sneak 5y ago
      Nobody you're iMessaging with has iCloud Backup turned off. Apple is still getting ~100% of the iMessages you send and receive.
      - ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
        You are misunderstanding (or deliberately misrepresenting) the architecture; please read the last half of page 109 and the first half of page 110 of their guide [0]. [0]: https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_GB/apple-platform-security-guide-b.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_GB/app...