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> Xcode Cloud requires you to push your repository to their servers […] You can't even synchronously wait on a build to finish - you have to set up a web server

by Lammy 5y ago

> Xcode Cloud requires you to push your repository to their servers […] You can't even synchronously wait on a build to finish - you have to set up a web server and listen for a webhook! It's interesting how the outcomes of Apple's engineering decisions are coincidentally indistinguishable from an attack on general-purpose computing itself. I wonder how many more years it will be until they stop shipping me a compiler entirely (never worry about confusing Xcode updates again!!) and make Xcode Cloud the only way to write software for iOS devices and M1 Macs. LLVM's licensing means I'm not even entitled to the changes necessary to support their custom hardware. https://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/civilwar.html https://boingboing.net/2012/08/23/civilwar.html

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nexuist 5y ago
Does it matter? As long as you can run gcc/Python/node/whatever you can always build software for macOS.
chipotle_coyote 5y ago
> I wonder how many more years it will be until they stop shipping me a compiler entirely. Probably never, especially with respect to Macs. I am beginning to feel like the cranky contrarian around here for continuing to argue that macOS will never be locked down to the degree iOS is, but I'm going to continue to argue it. You will always be able to develop locally on your Mac, always be able to get to a shell, always be able to install third-party apps without going through the App Store.[1] But, Xcode Cloud (I nearly typed "Xcloud," hmm) might eventually become what they use as a solution to allow Xcode on the iPad. That would allow them to stick with their "iPads are app consoles" philosophy, even if it might be bending it a little. [1] With the asterisk that I firmly believe there's a new OS that will replace both iOS and macOS down the road, and I'm not willing to make any strongly-worded predictions about its security model. Yet.
- Lammy 5y ago
  > You will always be able to develop locally on your Mac, always be able to get to a shell, always be able to install third-party apps without going through the App Store. The infrastructure to grant/deny use of specific applications to individual users has existed in macOS for years if they wanted to use it that way. Their server just currently gives the same answer to all requests for the same signature. https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/25/macos-has-checked-app-signatures-online-for-over-2-years/ https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/25/macos-has-checked-app-si... How about launching those applications totally privately — no network requests at all? Spoiler: `sudo spctl --master-disable`. Luckily we're still allowed root on ARM Macs for now :)
  - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
    Yes, I know. My argument is that they don't want to use it that way, not that they can't.
    - Lammy 5y ago
      I don't think it's possible to know who wants what or who even contributes to such a decision today, much less who will in the future.
      - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
        I can't definitively know, sure, but I can make guesses based on what I see, and what I see so far continues to match my model of how Apple thinks about Macs vs. iPads, even as Apple passes by obvious inflection points for changing things up if they wanted to (e.g., the shift to Apple Silicon, the macOS redesign in Big Sur). In the future, though, we run into the footnote in my original comment that I said I'm not willing to make any strongly-worded predictions about yet. I'm still not. :)
- codeisawesome 5y ago
  But then why make iPads so insanely, ridiculously powerful?!

by Lammy 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nexuist 5y ago

Does it matter? As long as you can run gcc/Python/node/whatever you can always build software for macOS.

chipotle_coyote 5y ago

> I wonder how many more years it will be until they stop shipping me a compiler entirely. Probably never, especially with respect to Macs. I am beginning to feel like the cranky contrarian around here for continuing to argue that macOS will never be locked down to the degree iOS is, but I'm going to continue to argue it. You will always be able to develop locally on your Mac, always be able to get to a shell, always be able to install third-party apps without going through the App Store.[1] But, Xcode Cloud (I nearly typed "Xcloud," hmm) might eventually become what they use as a solution to allow Xcode on the iPad. That would allow them to stick with their "iPads are app consoles" philosophy, even if it might be bending it a little. [1] With the asterisk that I firmly believe there's a new OS that will replace both iOS and macOS down the road, and I'm not willing to make any strongly-worded predictions about its security model. Yet.

Lammy 5y ago
> You will always be able to develop locally on your Mac, always be able to get to a shell, always be able to install third-party apps without going through the App Store. The infrastructure to grant/deny use of specific applications to individual users has existed in macOS for years if they wanted to use it that way. Their server just currently gives the same answer to all requests for the same signature. https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/25/macos-has-checked-app-signatures-online-for-over-2-years/ https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/25/macos-has-checked-app-si... How about launching those applications totally privately — no network requests at all? Spoiler: `sudo spctl --master-disable`. Luckily we're still allowed root on ARM Macs for now :)
- chipotle_coyote 5y ago
  Yes, I know. My argument is that they don't want to use it that way, not that they can't.
  - Lammy 5y ago
    I don't think it's possible to know who wants what or who even contributes to such a decision today, much less who will in the future.
    - chipotle_coyote 5y ago
      I can't definitively know, sure, but I can make guesses based on what I see, and what I see so far continues to match my model of how Apple thinks about Macs vs. iPads, even as Apple passes by obvious inflection points for changing things up if they wanted to (e.g., the shift to Apple Silicon, the macOS redesign in Big Sur). In the future, though, we run into the footnote in my original comment that I said I'm not willing to make any strongly-worded predictions about yet. I'm still not. :)
codeisawesome 5y ago
But then why make iPads so insanely, ridiculously powerful?!