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>The lesson here is The lesson here is never apologize on the internet because that'll be thrown back in your face.

Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL 5y ago
I see what you mean and there's of course some truth to it. He's stuck in a corner and no matter what he does now, some will write if off as insincere. I don't doubt that. But besides honing communication skills and maybe tune back his ego some (for the future), do you really think the whole situation (including his apology) would not have been vastly improved by consulting with someone knowledgeable in PR? If you think his apology sounds sincere and is worded appropriately, or his Twitter activity since the fiasco, does (or has done) him any good, then I guess we disagree on this.
marcinzm 5y ago
Not really. Don't apologize unless you first Google "how to apologize" and are willing to mostly follow the advice you get. The problem is that to follow that advice you need to publicly accept that you were the bad guy unequivocally which many high ego people are not willing to do.
- brhsagain 5y ago
  I guess my problem with this (and with the idea of the "right way" to give an apology in general) is, what if you weren't the bad guy unequivocally? Say someone punches me and out of anger I stab him. I apologize for stabbing him. But I'm not going to say I was the bad guy unequivocally, because I wasn't. He punched me and he punched first. He's at least, like, 10% the bad guy. That doesn't mean my apology for stabbing him is insincere. I regret that part 100%. But it's not wrong for me to say "I still think he shouldn't have punched me" because otherwise it's like I'm admitting to stabbing him for no reason, which isn't true. I get that one goal of an apology is to make amends to people who have been hurt/offended. Those people understandably want to see the apologizer grovel without hesitation. But humans have both a head and a heart, so shouldn't being accurate in one's apology be an equally important goal? Not taking a side here either way. Just something I've noticed about the social expectations around apologies in general.
  - mynameisvlad 5y ago
    “I apologize for stabbing them.” Period. End of sentence. Not “I apologize for stabbing them BUT they started it” The latter is just trying to justify and excuse the bad behavior and save face. A true apology shows remorse and that’s it.
    - stale2002 5y ago
      > The latter is just trying to justify and excuse the bad behavior and save face Ok, but in the example that was given, it does justify it, a little bit. It doesn't justify it completely, but I would absolutely have more empathy for someone who stabbed someone out of some amount of self defense, than I would for someone who stabbed someone for no reason. Do you really believe, that in the stabbing example, someone who stabs someone, for literally no reason at all, is exactly the same as someone who did it, in response to being assaulted first?
      - mynameisvlad 5y ago
        If your goal is to apologize, you don’t need to justify your actions. That’s what people are criticizing.
        stale2002 5y ago
        So then you agree or disagree, in the specific example, of someone responding in self defense, as opposed to stabbing someone for no reason? You think these 2 actions are the same, or is it that 1 situation is probably not as bad?
        mynameisvlad 5y ago
        This is not an argument in good faith and you know it. We aren't talking about these hypothetical situations and my opinions on them, we're talking about what makes an apology an apology. Kindly take your sealioning elsewhere.
austhrow743 5y ago
Don't fake apologise with a "he started it", on or off the internet.
Dah00n 5y ago
Especially when you say you are sorry but do not mean it. There's no BUT in an apology but there's a BUT in his apology, sooo...
kreddor 5y ago
It will be thrown back in your face if the apology comes out as insincere. I guess the lesson is to not apologize unless you really mean it.
ericlang 5y ago
I don't like this lesson; I rather a shitty attempt at an apology than no apology at all, even if it's obvious this apology would've never came without the attention of this post blowing up.
fouric 5y ago
"Never apologize to a mob."

I see what you mean and there's of course some truth to it. He's stuck in a corner and no matter what he does now, some will write if off as insincere. I don't doubt that. But besides honing communication skills and maybe tune back his ego some (for the future), do you really think the whole situation (including his apology) would not have been vastly improved by consulting with someone knowledgeable in PR? If you think his apology sounds sincere and is worded appropriately, or his Twitter activity since the fiasco, does (or has done) him any good, then I guess we disagree on this.

marcinzm 5y ago

Not really. Don't apologize unless you first Google "how to apologize" and are willing to mostly follow the advice you get. The problem is that to follow that advice you need to publicly accept that you were the bad guy unequivocally which many high ego people are not willing to do.

brhsagain 5y ago
I guess my problem with this (and with the idea of the "right way" to give an apology in general) is, what if you weren't the bad guy unequivocally? Say someone punches me and out of anger I stab him. I apologize for stabbing him. But I'm not going to say I was the bad guy unequivocally, because I wasn't. He punched me and he punched first. He's at least, like, 10% the bad guy. That doesn't mean my apology for stabbing him is insincere. I regret that part 100%. But it's not wrong for me to say "I still think he shouldn't have punched me" because otherwise it's like I'm admitting to stabbing him for no reason, which isn't true. I get that one goal of an apology is to make amends to people who have been hurt/offended. Those people understandably want to see the apologizer grovel without hesitation. But humans have both a head and a heart, so shouldn't being accurate in one's apology be an equally important goal? Not taking a side here either way. Just something I've noticed about the social expectations around apologies in general.
- mynameisvlad 5y ago
  “I apologize for stabbing them.” Period. End of sentence. Not “I apologize for stabbing them BUT they started it” The latter is just trying to justify and excuse the bad behavior and save face. A true apology shows remorse and that’s it.
  - stale2002 5y ago
    > The latter is just trying to justify and excuse the bad behavior and save face Ok, but in the example that was given, it does justify it, a little bit. It doesn't justify it completely, but I would absolutely have more empathy for someone who stabbed someone out of some amount of self defense, than I would for someone who stabbed someone for no reason. Do you really believe, that in the stabbing example, someone who stabs someone, for literally no reason at all, is exactly the same as someone who did it, in response to being assaulted first?
    - mynameisvlad 5y ago
      If your goal is to apologize, you don’t need to justify your actions. That’s what people are criticizing.
      - stale2002 5y ago
        So then you agree or disagree, in the specific example, of someone responding in self defense, as opposed to stabbing someone for no reason? You think these 2 actions are the same, or is it that 1 situation is probably not as bad?
        mynameisvlad 5y ago
        This is not an argument in good faith and you know it. We aren't talking about these hypothetical situations and my opinions on them, we're talking about what makes an apology an apology. Kindly take your sealioning elsewhere.

austhrow743 5y ago

Don't fake apologise with a "he started it", on or off the internet.

Dah00n 5y ago

Especially when you say you are sorry but do not mean it. There's no BUT in an apology but there's a BUT in his apology, sooo...

kreddor 5y ago

It will be thrown back in your face if the apology comes out as insincere. I guess the lesson is to not apologize unless you really mean it.

ericlang 5y ago

I don't like this lesson; I rather a shitty attempt at an apology than no apology at all, even if it's obvious this apology would've never came without the attention of this post blowing up.

fouric 5y ago

"Never apologize to a mob."