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I think the parent you're referring to was echoing a story that popped up as something of a conspiracy on the vestiges of the Internet, hinted at by the claim t

I think the parent you're referring to was echoing a story that popped up as something of a conspiracy on the vestiges of the Internet, hinted at by the claim that the machines could be accessed when powered off. I don't think that's true, and you'd have to have access to the network they're connected to. Though, I suppose you could power such systems up (maybe?) and then gain access to them if you did have access via, say, a corporate network. The closest analog to the claims that I could find in short order did mention a known AMT exploit[1] in 2017. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2017/05/05/intel_amt_remote_exploit https://www.theregister.com/2017/05/05/intel_amt_remote_expl...

R0b0t1 5y ago
They're talking about potential backdoors, perhaps guised as misconfiguration. Later vPro versions would connect back to a VPN. You shouldn't just trust Intel that it doesn't respond to network access if you tell it to nicely.
- Zancarius 5y ago
  I agree. I don't want to rehash it here, but if you look at my reply to your sibling, you'll get a better insight into my reasoning. Basically the TL;DR version is that there are some absolutely asinine conspiracists who literally think that government agencies can extract all of their data while the computer is powered off using IME/AMT. Obviously, there's a lot more to it, but I do agree that I don't trust Intel, and IME/AMT are dangerous. I'd link one of the posts I ran into that made this claim, but I don't really want to give the idiots who peddle this garbage any more exposure than necessary, because they appear to be into the 5G "mind control" conspiracies as well. No, I'm not kidding.
perl4ever 5y ago
>I think the parent you're referring to was echoing a story that popped up as something of a conspiracy on the vestiges of the Internet, hinted at by the claim that the machines could be accessed when powered off. If by "vestiges" you mean "fringes", I find that a bit disturbing assuming you are sincere. Whatever thought process led you to think it was an obscure conspiracy theory - did you check Wikipedia? The third sentence of the Wikipedia page on the IME is: "The Intel Management Engine always runs as long as the motherboard is receiving power, even when the computer is turned off." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine There isn't a specific source for this given, but I looked at some of the references and found this in Intel documentation: "This interface can retrieve the current power state and change the power state of the hosting machine via commands to Intel AMT." https://software.intel.com/sites/manageability/AMT_Implementation_and_Reference_Guide/default.htm https://software.intel.com/sites/manageability/AMT_Implement... There is also a link to "Black Hat 2017" given as a source for the ability to manipulate computers when they are turned off through the Management Engine. And then, looking at your Register link, I don't see that it says anything about the capability of control when powered off.
- Zancarius 5y ago
  > Whatever thought process led you to think it was an obscure conspiracy theory - did you check Wikipedia? I'm guessing you haven't encountered the conspiracists on sites like 4chan and Gab where they literally claim that you can extricate all data from the machines while powered off. Do not underestimate the idiocy and extremism behind some of these conspiracies. They have widely stupid claims that are outright impossible, but because it's terrifying to users who don't know better otherwise, the truth gets muddied. Yes, IME/AMT can be accessed as long as the machine has utility power. However, the machine still has to be remotely powered up to access anything else (e.g. if there were an exploit that allowed remote extrication of in-memory data loaded by the OS because, well, the OS has to be booted). So yes, I'm well aware of this. I think the problem is that you haven't encountered some of the really wild and ridiculously extreme interpretations of this conspiracy on, shall we say, the vestigial fringes of the Internet that harbor some equally stupid notions. It's no accident that the people who think $THREE_LETTER_AGENCY can access all of your personal photos and information with your machine powered off via IME/AMT are almost uniformly also the types who think that 5G is going to instigate mind control or believe the Earth is flat. I know of these because I regularly find it perversely amusing to debate them because I'm either stupid, crazy, or both.

R0b0t1 5y ago

They're talking about potential backdoors, perhaps guised as misconfiguration. Later vPro versions would connect back to a VPN. You shouldn't just trust Intel that it doesn't respond to network access if you tell it to nicely.

Zancarius 5y ago
I agree. I don't want to rehash it here, but if you look at my reply to your sibling, you'll get a better insight into my reasoning. Basically the TL;DR version is that there are some absolutely asinine conspiracists who literally think that government agencies can extract all of their data while the computer is powered off using IME/AMT. Obviously, there's a lot more to it, but I do agree that I don't trust Intel, and IME/AMT are dangerous. I'd link one of the posts I ran into that made this claim, but I don't really want to give the idiots who peddle this garbage any more exposure than necessary, because they appear to be into the 5G "mind control" conspiracies as well. No, I'm not kidding.

perl4ever 5y ago

>I think the parent you're referring to was echoing a story that popped up as something of a conspiracy on the vestiges of the Internet, hinted at by the claim that the machines could be accessed when powered off. If by "vestiges" you mean "fringes", I find that a bit disturbing assuming you are sincere. Whatever thought process led you to think it was an obscure conspiracy theory - did you check Wikipedia? The third sentence of the Wikipedia page on the IME is: "The Intel Management Engine always runs as long as the motherboard is receiving power, even when the computer is turned off." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine There isn't a specific source for this given, but I looked at some of the references and found this in Intel documentation: "This interface can retrieve the current power state and change the power state of the hosting machine via commands to Intel AMT." https://software.intel.com/sites/manageability/AMT_Implementation_and_Reference_Guide/default.htm https://software.intel.com/sites/manageability/AMT_Implement... There is also a link to "Black Hat 2017" given as a source for the ability to manipulate computers when they are turned off through the Management Engine. And then, looking at your Register link, I don't see that it says anything about the capability of control when powered off.

Zancarius 5y ago
> Whatever thought process led you to think it was an obscure conspiracy theory - did you check Wikipedia? I'm guessing you haven't encountered the conspiracists on sites like 4chan and Gab where they literally claim that you can extricate all data from the machines while powered off. Do not underestimate the idiocy and extremism behind some of these conspiracies. They have widely stupid claims that are outright impossible, but because it's terrifying to users who don't know better otherwise, the truth gets muddied. Yes, IME/AMT can be accessed as long as the machine has utility power. However, the machine still has to be remotely powered up to access anything else (e.g. if there were an exploit that allowed remote extrication of in-memory data loaded by the OS because, well, the OS has to be booted). So yes, I'm well aware of this. I think the problem is that you haven't encountered some of the really wild and ridiculously extreme interpretations of this conspiracy on, shall we say, the vestigial fringes of the Internet that harbor some equally stupid notions. It's no accident that the people who think $THREE_LETTER_AGENCY can access all of your personal photos and information with your machine powered off via IME/AMT are almost uniformly also the types who think that 5G is going to instigate mind control or believe the Earth is flat. I know of these because I regularly find it perversely amusing to debate them because I'm either stupid, crazy, or both.