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Really informative video but this is talking about hashing functions. Private keys are created differently using (some) shared information between the private a

by h3cate 5y ago

Really informative video but this is talking about hashing functions. Private keys are created differently using (some) shared information between the private and public keys. If there was one area I could see the us investing their time and effort since RSA came out it's here. Don't get me wrong, it would be out there if they could crack even one key but like I said, if anyone can it's them.

TZubiri 5y ago
No. If anyone had the ability to crack bitcoin addresses, they would not spend that technology on something as inconsequential as this. It would be saved for national defense issues
- h3cate 5y ago
  Completely agree but it could be perceived as a show of strength.
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    Still stupid. As soon as some entity reveals they have the power to crack one of these algorithms, everyone scrambles to migrate to something orders of magnitude harder. It's a weapon you'd only be able to use for maybe a few weeks or months before all the worthwhile targets immunize themselves against you. We already have quantum safe asymmetric cryptography, just no incentive to move fast to deploy it.
    - TZubiri 5y ago
      How would quantum solve any problems here? I thought the benefit of quantum crypto was the ability to send information while detecting eavesdroppers. I don't think quantum computers have outclassed traditional cpus in processing power.
      - h3cate 5y ago
        I believe he's talking about encryption algorithms that are safe from quantum computers
      - anonporridge 5y ago
        If they FBI did actually crack a private key, it would almost certainly have to be with a top secret, insanely powerful quantum computer that's decades ahead of what is publicly known to exist. The existence of such a computer that could crack bitcoin private keys would also be a powerful tool against every organization on the planet and their ability to maintain secrets. I'm referring for post quantum cryptography, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography, which would negate the usefulness of such a quantum computer at cracking competitor secrets. Bottom line, there are much more useful things you could use this computer for, like cracking all encrypted communications of a foreign power or hacking into their military or financial systems. Using it to crack a single bitcoin key to recover a few million dollars only serves to alert all your adversaries that it's time to upgrade their cryptography.
    - h3cate 5y ago
      And who decides when it's time to make the switch? Because it's not a random government. It will most likely be the us putting pressure on technology companies to switch
      - anonporridge 5y ago
        I don't understand the question. Who decided that we needed to migrate to HTTPs everywhere? Or that authentication for online bank accounts needed to be encrypted? As cracking of traditional encryption becomes an obvious problem, systems will be upgraded or people will vote with their feet.
        h3cate 5y ago
        Well HTTPS isn't used everywhere and governments have decided that banks need to meet an extremely strict set of rules to operate. As much as we'd like to think of the internet as the wild west, it is not.
        TZubiri 5y ago
        HTTPS is used almost everywhere. And it's not like a government decrees something and it's done. Laws involve multiple stakeholders, and there are multiple governments which converge on the same decision. It is correct to state that security best practices are not decided by one entity but rather figured out organically and on a non centralized basis.
duskwuff 5y ago
Bitcoin keys are ECDSA (secp256k1) keys. The same scheme is used in many other areas of computer security; it would be incredibly foolish for the NSA to reveal an exploit they're sitting on, even indirectly.
- h3cate 5y ago
  Would it really be that foolish though? Could it not be perceived as a show of strength? That's why America stole them back in the first place right? $4m isn't a lot to the company hacked or to the USA. Why go to the trouble of stealing them back at all?

by h3cate 5y ago

TZubiri 5y ago

No. If anyone had the ability to crack bitcoin addresses, they would not spend that technology on something as inconsequential as this. It would be saved for national defense issues

h3cate 5y ago
Completely agree but it could be perceived as a show of strength.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  Still stupid. As soon as some entity reveals they have the power to crack one of these algorithms, everyone scrambles to migrate to something orders of magnitude harder. It's a weapon you'd only be able to use for maybe a few weeks or months before all the worthwhile targets immunize themselves against you. We already have quantum safe asymmetric cryptography, just no incentive to move fast to deploy it.
  - TZubiri 5y ago
    How would quantum solve any problems here? I thought the benefit of quantum crypto was the ability to send information while detecting eavesdroppers. I don't think quantum computers have outclassed traditional cpus in processing power.
    - h3cate 5y ago
      I believe he's talking about encryption algorithms that are safe from quantum computers
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      If they FBI did actually crack a private key, it would almost certainly have to be with a top secret, insanely powerful quantum computer that's decades ahead of what is publicly known to exist. The existence of such a computer that could crack bitcoin private keys would also be a powerful tool against every organization on the planet and their ability to maintain secrets. I'm referring for post quantum cryptography, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography, which would negate the usefulness of such a quantum computer at cracking competitor secrets. Bottom line, there are much more useful things you could use this computer for, like cracking all encrypted communications of a foreign power or hacking into their military or financial systems. Using it to crack a single bitcoin key to recover a few million dollars only serves to alert all your adversaries that it's time to upgrade their cryptography.
  - h3cate 5y ago
    And who decides when it's time to make the switch? Because it's not a random government. It will most likely be the us putting pressure on technology companies to switch
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      I don't understand the question. Who decided that we needed to migrate to HTTPs everywhere? Or that authentication for online bank accounts needed to be encrypted? As cracking of traditional encryption becomes an obvious problem, systems will be upgraded or people will vote with their feet.
      - h3cate 5y ago
        Well HTTPS isn't used everywhere and governments have decided that banks need to meet an extremely strict set of rules to operate. As much as we'd like to think of the internet as the wild west, it is not.
        TZubiri 5y ago
        HTTPS is used almost everywhere. And it's not like a government decrees something and it's done. Laws involve multiple stakeholders, and there are multiple governments which converge on the same decision. It is correct to state that security best practices are not decided by one entity but rather figured out organically and on a non centralized basis.

duskwuff 5y ago

Bitcoin keys are ECDSA (secp256k1) keys. The same scheme is used in many other areas of computer security; it would be incredibly foolish for the NSA to reveal an exploit they're sitting on, even indirectly.

h3cate 5y ago
Would it really be that foolish though? Could it not be perceived as a show of strength? That's why America stole them back in the first place right? $4m isn't a lot to the company hacked or to the USA. Why go to the trouble of stealing them back at all?