5 ms·

> Google has turned into a cesspool. All these same sites appear near the top of Bing searches too. There's nothing particularly Google-specific to this story

> Google has turned into a cesspool. All these same sites appear near the top of Bing searches too. There's nothing particularly Google-specific to this story. It's about SEO hacking that will work against anyone with a PageRank-style system.

worble 5y ago
I think it's high time we had a webring resurgence. It's impossible to get anywhere with plain search anymore, what we need is curated websites that other domain owners are happy to say "I endorse the people running this site, so if like my stuff you'll like them too"
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Isn't that what people go to social media for?
  - bottled_poe 5y ago
    Social media is gamed the same way? Sharebots, etc
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      Do you suppose Web rings wouldn't be when there's money in it? There was plenty of that when they were just for fun.
      - IggleSniggle 5y ago
        It’s fundamentally about trust models. That is to say, about the audience. Everybody gave up trusting webrings because Google provided better results. Now that Google results are shit, there’s room for other information vendors to come along, even if it’s in narrow areas. Actually, HN is already this for me in some respects.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        In my opinion this site is not really so different from, say, Reddit, beyond having more focused rules and being smaller. So I don't think my idea that social media have supplanted the Web ring is wide of the mark.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  If they can inject a random link into a page, why couldn't they also be able to inject a web ring link?
- stevenicr 5y ago
  Id like to see. and be happy to post some various web rings and blogrolls.. One of the things that killed them imho is when google started penalizing sites that linked to some other sites. This was compounded by the expired-domain market.. wordpress even took out linkrolls around that time, people that had them in sidebar widgets would have them disappear unless they installed a new plugin to bring them back. Webrings that auto-add the "nofollow tag" I guess could make them okay for people again. Might be cool to have a github type page with a list of rings to reccomend.. a script auto-pulls it into your page, adding nofollow - and then other people could copy your list or clone/fork..
jimbob45 5y ago
This is my view too. Yes, I’d love to go back to a time when Google’s algorithms were unknown enough for SEO to be futile but those days are gone and the problem isn’t limited to Google.
Mediterraneo10 5y ago
Indeed. I recently noticed this while relying on DDG for documentation for Common Lisp, a language I still learning. The top-ranking site for any Common Lisp function was an SEO scam site, where clearly someone had hired freelancers to take preexisting CLisp documentation and rewrite it – in poor-quality English – until it would no longer be detectable as copyright violation, then loaded it with ads. (I just checked and this copycat documentation site has, thankfully, now been pushed down a bit in DDG results.)
- birktj 5y ago
  Note that as I quite recently learned DDG has support for a bunch of bang-commands listed at [1]. There are a bunch of them for documentation sites for all kinds of programming languages, including a couple for lisp it seems like. [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/bang_lite.html https://duckduckgo.com/bang_lite.html
- abhinav22 5y ago
  For learning Common Lisp, I highly recommend https://github.com/ashok-khanna/common-lisp-by-example https://github.com/ashok-khanna/common-lisp-by-example

worble 5y ago

I think it's high time we had a webring resurgence. It's impossible to get anywhere with plain search anymore, what we need is curated websites that other domain owners are happy to say "I endorse the people running this site, so if like my stuff you'll like them too"

emodendroket 5y ago
Isn't that what people go to social media for?
- bottled_poe 5y ago
  Social media is gamed the same way? Sharebots, etc
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Do you suppose Web rings wouldn't be when there's money in it? There was plenty of that when they were just for fun.
    - IggleSniggle 5y ago
      It’s fundamentally about trust models. That is to say, about the audience. Everybody gave up trusting webrings because Google provided better results. Now that Google results are shit, there’s room for other information vendors to come along, even if it’s in narrow areas. Actually, HN is already this for me in some respects.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        In my opinion this site is not really so different from, say, Reddit, beyond having more focused rules and being smaller. So I don't think my idea that social media have supplanted the Web ring is wide of the mark.
cortesoft 5y ago
If they can inject a random link into a page, why couldn't they also be able to inject a web ring link?
stevenicr 5y ago
Id like to see. and be happy to post some various web rings and blogrolls.. One of the things that killed them imho is when google started penalizing sites that linked to some other sites. This was compounded by the expired-domain market.. wordpress even took out linkrolls around that time, people that had them in sidebar widgets would have them disappear unless they installed a new plugin to bring them back. Webrings that auto-add the "nofollow tag" I guess could make them okay for people again. Might be cool to have a github type page with a list of rings to reccomend.. a script auto-pulls it into your page, adding nofollow - and then other people could copy your list or clone/fork..

jimbob45 5y ago

This is my view too. Yes, I’d love to go back to a time when Google’s algorithms were unknown enough for SEO to be futile but those days are gone and the problem isn’t limited to Google.

Mediterraneo10 5y ago

Indeed. I recently noticed this while relying on DDG for documentation for Common Lisp, a language I still learning. The top-ranking site for any Common Lisp function was an SEO scam site, where clearly someone had hired freelancers to take preexisting CLisp documentation and rewrite it – in poor-quality English – until it would no longer be detectable as copyright violation, then loaded it with ads. (I just checked and this copycat documentation site has, thankfully, now been pushed down a bit in DDG results.)

birktj 5y ago
Note that as I quite recently learned DDG has support for a bunch of bang-commands listed at [1]. There are a bunch of them for documentation sites for all kinds of programming languages, including a couple for lisp it seems like. [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/bang_lite.html https://duckduckgo.com/bang_lite.html
abhinav22 5y ago
For learning Common Lisp, I highly recommend https://github.com/ashok-khanna/common-lisp-by-example https://github.com/ashok-khanna/common-lisp-by-example