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The hell is Apple doing with their supported machines? * iMac Late 2014 - Haswell 4th gen CPU with AMD GCN 1.0 or 1.2 GPU - not supported * Mac Mini Late 2014

by DCKing 5y ago

The hell is Apple doing with their supported machines? * iMac Late 2014 - Haswell 4th gen CPU with AMD GCN 1.0 or 1.2 GPU - not supported * Mac Mini Late 2014 - Haswell 4th gen CPU and GPU - supported (this came out the same day as aforementioned iMac) * Mac Pro Late 2013 - Ivy Bridge 3rd gen CPU with AMD GCN 1.0 GPU - supported * Macbook Late 2015 - Broadwell 5th gen CPU and GPU - not supported * Macbook Air Early 2015 - Broadwell 5th gen CPU and GPU - supported I was thinking I could get consistent, somewhat predictable 10 year support out of Apple when buying a new machine - counting 2 years of security updates after the last supported major release. Usually Apple lets go old stuff for specific architecture features in the CPU or GPU, meaning there's some technical reason albeit unstated. But this looks like a random crapshoot? This doesn't inspire confidence for my intended new purchase this year - because the 10 years on my previous purchase is running out. It's rough especially for people that spent thousands of dollars on the 27" 5K iMac in 2014 to be cut off in this release - really at the earliest end for Apple. That was a halo product on release and is still a damn fine computer, and will still be a damn fine computer two years from now. If you had instead bought a cheap Mac Mini the same day you'd have one more year of support at least...

bombcar 5y ago
There's always people who work out what's needed to get the older OS running via things like https://github.com/barrykn/big-sur-micropatcher https://github.com/barrykn/big-sur-micropatcher - and that 2014 iMac will still be supported on Big Sur for awhile before updates for that stop. Sometimes it works relatively well, other times there are major performance issues (often if the graphics card is missing support for a feature needed).
- DCKing 5y ago
  This announcement puts the expiry date for software updates on the 2014 iMac in late 2023, which is 9 years of support on a potentially 3000 dollar machine at the time. I'm aware of patching projects that will likely give it a longer lease on life, and you can run Windows or Linux on it at that point, but should that really be necessary for a machine of that calibre? Usually Apple cut off machines along the lines of "doesn't support these CPU instructions" or "doesn't support GPU features for Metal". This list isn't that. On the face of it, this list is random. If there is some weird thing like wifi chips that's still on Apple to make work, that's not even on the spec sheet (certainly not theirs). Apple may be intending to support Big Sur for three years instead of two though, so I'll hold my breath for a sec. That doesn't take away that Apple seems to be axing things randomly now.
  - Someone 5y ago
    I think that’s only seems, as I can’t think of any reason why they would axe things randomly. It seems way more likely to me they know something about that hardware selection we haven’t thought of yet.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      It could be as simple as a missing wireless or Bluetooth feature needed to support this display sharing stuff. So they say “not supported” but may not try that hard to prevent it from running. We’ll have to wait to get our hands on it to see.
gsnedders 5y ago
> * Mac Mini Late 2014 - Haswell 4th gen CPU and GPU - supported (this came out the same day as aforementioned iMac) Apple's support policies have historically been tied to the notions of vintage/obsolete hardware, see https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201624. Notably, the timer starts on the last day the product was available for sale, not the first day the product was available for sale.
- DCKing 5y ago
  Ah TIL. The "obselescence" notion seems to apply somewhat cleanly to their previous deprecation waves. But it still doesn't seem to explain this deprecation list though? For Apple's "obsolete" counter of seven years to run out for the 2014 iMac this year, they would have to have stopped selling it immediately after launch, but I'm assuming they sold it well into 2015 until their refresh a year later. One could have dropped three grand on a high end iMac in mid 2015, only for it to stop getting major updates just six years later (and updates of any sort in eight). The 2015 Macbook won't even get into their obsolescence window until next year at the earliest.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
I have Big Sur running flawlessly on my MacBook Pro 2012, although it’s not officially supported. The same story thee, with regards to support, since it’s a Haswell computer with a metal GPU everything works. Should be similar story for you. Check out bigsurpatcher on Reddit.
- DCKing 5y ago
  I don't have any of the machines in this list. I'm commenting on Apple's sudden random deprecation strategy without a direct stake in the game.
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    It's always been random. They've never made a promise. Sometimes you get 10 years support like the Mac Plus, sometimes you get 5 years like an iMac G4. Heck Tiger "required" a built-in Firewire port.
stalfosknight 5y ago
Former Genius here. Apple's approach is to support hardware models up to 5 years old and anything past that is gravy but not guaranteed. You'll find that in most places (except where the law says otherwise) Apple stops stocking replacement parts for models more than 5 years old.
frawst 5y ago
Planned obsolescence. My company has a fleet of 2013 MacBook Pros which are about to become useless for dev work because xcode is tied to macOS. Not being able to upgrade macOS means not being able to get the latest version of xcode which means we can't build against the latest SDK. I doubt there is a solid technical reason why these machines can't run the next version of xcode. It's a better scenario for regular consumers. Based on past release schedules there will be security updates for a couple more years for those stuck on macOS Big Sur.
- Asdrubalini 5y ago
  Have you tried http://dosdude1.com/software.html http://dosdude1.com/software.html? It allows to upgrade old macs to newer releases, macOS Catalina can be installed on macs as old as Early-2008 MacBook Pro without particular issues IIRC.

by DCKing 5y ago

bombcar 5y ago

There's always people who work out what's needed to get the older OS running via things like https://github.com/barrykn/big-sur-micropatcher https://github.com/barrykn/big-sur-micropatcher - and that 2014 iMac will still be supported on Big Sur for awhile before updates for that stop. Sometimes it works relatively well, other times there are major performance issues (often if the graphics card is missing support for a feature needed).

DCKing 5y ago
This announcement puts the expiry date for software updates on the 2014 iMac in late 2023, which is 9 years of support on a potentially 3000 dollar machine at the time. I'm aware of patching projects that will likely give it a longer lease on life, and you can run Windows or Linux on it at that point, but should that really be necessary for a machine of that calibre? Usually Apple cut off machines along the lines of "doesn't support these CPU instructions" or "doesn't support GPU features for Metal". This list isn't that. On the face of it, this list is random. If there is some weird thing like wifi chips that's still on Apple to make work, that's not even on the spec sheet (certainly not theirs). Apple may be intending to support Big Sur for three years instead of two though, so I'll hold my breath for a sec. That doesn't take away that Apple seems to be axing things randomly now.
- Someone 5y ago
  I think that’s only seems, as I can’t think of any reason why they would axe things randomly. It seems way more likely to me they know something about that hardware selection we haven’t thought of yet.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    It could be as simple as a missing wireless or Bluetooth feature needed to support this display sharing stuff. So they say “not supported” but may not try that hard to prevent it from running. We’ll have to wait to get our hands on it to see.

gsnedders 5y ago

> * Mac Mini Late 2014 - Haswell 4th gen CPU and GPU - supported (this came out the same day as aforementioned iMac) Apple's support policies have historically been tied to the notions of vintage/obsolete hardware, see https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201624. Notably, the timer starts on the last day the product was available for sale, not the first day the product was available for sale.

DCKing 5y ago
Ah TIL. The "obselescence" notion seems to apply somewhat cleanly to their previous deprecation waves. But it still doesn't seem to explain this deprecation list though? For Apple's "obsolete" counter of seven years to run out for the 2014 iMac this year, they would have to have stopped selling it immediately after launch, but I'm assuming they sold it well into 2015 until their refresh a year later. One could have dropped three grand on a high end iMac in mid 2015, only for it to stop getting major updates just six years later (and updates of any sort in eight). The 2015 Macbook won't even get into their obsolescence window until next year at the earliest.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

I have Big Sur running flawlessly on my MacBook Pro 2012, although it’s not officially supported. The same story thee, with regards to support, since it’s a Haswell computer with a metal GPU everything works. Should be similar story for you. Check out bigsurpatcher on Reddit.

DCKing 5y ago
I don't have any of the machines in this list. I'm commenting on Apple's sudden random deprecation strategy without a direct stake in the game.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  It's always been random. They've never made a promise. Sometimes you get 10 years support like the Mac Plus, sometimes you get 5 years like an iMac G4. Heck Tiger "required" a built-in Firewire port.

stalfosknight 5y ago

Former Genius here. Apple's approach is to support hardware models up to 5 years old and anything past that is gravy but not guaranteed. You'll find that in most places (except where the law says otherwise) Apple stops stocking replacement parts for models more than 5 years old.

frawst 5y ago

Planned obsolescence. My company has a fleet of 2013 MacBook Pros which are about to become useless for dev work because xcode is tied to macOS. Not being able to upgrade macOS means not being able to get the latest version of xcode which means we can't build against the latest SDK. I doubt there is a solid technical reason why these machines can't run the next version of xcode. It's a better scenario for regular consumers. Based on past release schedules there will be security updates for a couple more years for those stuck on macOS Big Sur.

Asdrubalini 5y ago
Have you tried http://dosdude1.com/software.html http://dosdude1.com/software.html? It allows to upgrade old macs to newer releases, macOS Catalina can be installed on macs as old as Early-2008 MacBook Pro without particular issues IIRC.