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I get that I'm a rather niche user, but I'm a physicist who makes heavy use of an iPad Pro for handwritten notes. When I'm not at my desktop computer, I don't

I get that I'm a rather niche user, but I'm a physicist who makes heavy use of an iPad Pro for handwritten notes. When I'm not at my desktop computer, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to write an run code on my iPad. For instance, Wolfram already has a working Mathematica kernel on iPadOS and iOS, but because of Apple's rigid restrictions on running code on i-devices, they've only publicly released their CDF player and Wolfram Cloud apps, rather than a full on version of Mathematica. There's no reason for this other than Apple's restrictions. Because of Apple's restrictions on this, I own both a Macbook Pro and an iPad but this feels artificial and unnecessary. As time goes on, I'm feeling more and more alienated by Apple and likely once my current devices reach the end of their lives, they'll be replaced by something from outside of Apple's ecosystem.

jclardy 5y ago
This is exactly the problem. The app store being the only distribution method for iPad OS means that Apple controls everything that is possible on iPad OS. The problem is iPadOS drastically fails at simple tasks all the time - I wanted to print a shipping label the other day that I got in an email - sounds simple? Not on iPad! Tap print, see the AirPrint printer, tap print, and I get a 100% fill UPS label. I could download an app like Pages, drop in the image, setup the formatting then print. But it was literally easier to just open my mac, change one option and press print. It looks like iOS 15 finally adds print options, but how could this have taken 15 years to have printer options… I really love using my iPad for whatever I can. But the random missing features and “iPad simplicity” frustrations are incredibly annoying.
threeseed 5y ago
And Apple's restrictions on code execution are there for a reason. Without it the entire App Store review model falls apart as anyone could submit an app that does X and then in reality does Y. And due to the way Objective-C works there are no static analysis tools that can work upfront to fix this. So they have a choice between losing customers like you and keeping the many more who prefer the way the iOS app ecosystem works.
- eigenspace 5y ago
  I think it's less about the review model, and more about the revenue model. For safety purposes, presumably code executing apps could just be sandboxed and only interact with the file system in very limited ways and be pretty safe. On the other hand, the App store is a revenue generating behemoth due to their internal monopoly. I think the reason Apple doesn't allow me to execute arbitrary code inside a container is that they're afraid of people circumventing their App store and distributing money makers like games and such without Apple collecting their cut of the revenue.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    You didn't address my point at all. Code execution allows you to pretend to be a flashlight app during the app review process, pass any automated tests and then at runtime download code from the web to execute. And since this allows you to add new functionality on the fly pretty soon every app would move to this approach. This then opens up an entirely new security vector which is hijacking/MITM servers so that you can inject your code in place of the app developer's code. Thus instantly turning that app into one giant code execution farm for Bitcoin mining, DDOS etc. You can either have an app review process or code execution. Not both.
    - eigenspace 5y ago
      My point was that I don't believe this is Apple's primary motivation. If Apple wanted to allow arbitrary code execution, they could have an entirely separate category of app for it that includes warning labels, and requires the developer to justify to Apple why their app requires arbitrary code execution in order to function. If someone submitted a flashlight app that requested this capability they could just deny it. E.g. they could say that the only valid justification for allowing arbitrary code to run is for developer applications that are meant to be running user written code. Apps in this category could be forced to pay extra to apple in order for Apple to pay for special, ongoing scrutiny for security reasons. They might even do things like require that the app publisher be well recognized and have some sort of provable, good track record of not releasing malware. Arbitrary execution is not incompatible with review, it makes it harder.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
Oh, I also have a physics background, and I have been waiting for CDF type ideas to become mainstream for almost 10 years now since I finished at MIT and first asked about the iPad to Wolfram’s team. Obviously, digital documents of the future will have graphs and data that can be manipulated while standing and sharing, and it could be done now if Apple would flip a few bits and remove some restrictions. It is an exciting future for communication and information exchange, and I’m sure this will happen as people catch up to how great of a user experience that would be (versus sitting and reading documents and manipulating plots on a desktop or laptop) - especially in a noisy environment where standing and movement are necessary.
turtlebits 5y ago
I've never liked how multitasking works on the iPad and I can imagine trying to code on it being a poor experience. This is even worse with the simplistic file management. I'm actually glad the iPad keeps it simple, as every time I try to code or use the files app on my Chromebook, its extremely irritating.
- eigenspace 5y ago
  I've written an run code through remote Pluto.jl notebooks and Jupyter Notebooks, locally through iSH.app, and remotely through mosh and it's certainly not a perfect experience, but it's pretty serviceable. Especially now that the new M1 iPads have so much ram, background tasks won't get frozen nearly as often so that alone will improve the multitasking experience, let alone the new stuff they're adding in iPadOS 15. Honestly though, I'm fine with it not being a perfect experience, as long as I can actually do it if I need to do it. But I guess apple is saving me from myself by forcing me out of their ecosystem.

jclardy 5y ago

This is exactly the problem. The app store being the only distribution method for iPad OS means that Apple controls everything that is possible on iPad OS. The problem is iPadOS drastically fails at simple tasks all the time - I wanted to print a shipping label the other day that I got in an email - sounds simple? Not on iPad! Tap print, see the AirPrint printer, tap print, and I get a 100% fill UPS label. I could download an app like Pages, drop in the image, setup the formatting then print. But it was literally easier to just open my mac, change one option and press print. It looks like iOS 15 finally adds print options, but how could this have taken 15 years to have printer options… I really love using my iPad for whatever I can. But the random missing features and “iPad simplicity” frustrations are incredibly annoying.

threeseed 5y ago

And Apple's restrictions on code execution are there for a reason. Without it the entire App Store review model falls apart as anyone could submit an app that does X and then in reality does Y. And due to the way Objective-C works there are no static analysis tools that can work upfront to fix this. So they have a choice between losing customers like you and keeping the many more who prefer the way the iOS app ecosystem works.

eigenspace 5y ago
I think it's less about the review model, and more about the revenue model. For safety purposes, presumably code executing apps could just be sandboxed and only interact with the file system in very limited ways and be pretty safe. On the other hand, the App store is a revenue generating behemoth due to their internal monopoly. I think the reason Apple doesn't allow me to execute arbitrary code inside a container is that they're afraid of people circumventing their App store and distributing money makers like games and such without Apple collecting their cut of the revenue.
- threeseed 5y ago
  You didn't address my point at all. Code execution allows you to pretend to be a flashlight app during the app review process, pass any automated tests and then at runtime download code from the web to execute. And since this allows you to add new functionality on the fly pretty soon every app would move to this approach. This then opens up an entirely new security vector which is hijacking/MITM servers so that you can inject your code in place of the app developer's code. Thus instantly turning that app into one giant code execution farm for Bitcoin mining, DDOS etc. You can either have an app review process or code execution. Not both.
  - eigenspace 5y ago
    My point was that I don't believe this is Apple's primary motivation. If Apple wanted to allow arbitrary code execution, they could have an entirely separate category of app for it that includes warning labels, and requires the developer to justify to Apple why their app requires arbitrary code execution in order to function. If someone submitted a flashlight app that requested this capability they could just deny it. E.g. they could say that the only valid justification for allowing arbitrary code to run is for developer applications that are meant to be running user written code. Apps in this category could be forced to pay extra to apple in order for Apple to pay for special, ongoing scrutiny for security reasons. They might even do things like require that the app publisher be well recognized and have some sort of provable, good track record of not releasing malware. Arbitrary execution is not incompatible with review, it makes it harder.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

Oh, I also have a physics background, and I have been waiting for CDF type ideas to become mainstream for almost 10 years now since I finished at MIT and first asked about the iPad to Wolfram’s team. Obviously, digital documents of the future will have graphs and data that can be manipulated while standing and sharing, and it could be done now if Apple would flip a few bits and remove some restrictions. It is an exciting future for communication and information exchange, and I’m sure this will happen as people catch up to how great of a user experience that would be (versus sitting and reading documents and manipulating plots on a desktop or laptop) - especially in a noisy environment where standing and movement are necessary.

turtlebits 5y ago

I've never liked how multitasking works on the iPad and I can imagine trying to code on it being a poor experience. This is even worse with the simplistic file management. I'm actually glad the iPad keeps it simple, as every time I try to code or use the files app on my Chromebook, its extremely irritating.

eigenspace 5y ago
I've written an run code through remote Pluto.jl notebooks and Jupyter Notebooks, locally through iSH.app, and remotely through mosh and it's certainly not a perfect experience, but it's pretty serviceable. Especially now that the new M1 iPads have so much ram, background tasks won't get frozen nearly as often so that alone will improve the multitasking experience, let alone the new stuff they're adding in iPadOS 15. Honestly though, I'm fine with it not being a perfect experience, as long as I can actually do it if I need to do it. But I guess apple is saving me from myself by forcing me out of their ecosystem.