7 ms·

This is seriously underwhelming. I've been sitting on $2000 on an Apple gift card I wanted to spend on a top spec M1 iPad Pro to watch TV shows at home and tak

This is seriously underwhelming. I've been sitting on $2000 on an Apple gift card I wanted to spend on a top spec M1 iPad Pro to watch TV shows at home and take with me on travels if I need to debug issues in production or come up with a quick fix while sitting in an hotel room or a coffee shop. I was hoping iPadOS 15 would get the device closer to a Mac or make running Docker or VSCode easier without jumping through hoops with VPSs, but alas, seems like Tim Cook doesn't care that he's got a tablet that's incredibly fast, more so than most laptops, and that it's kept back by its amateurish operating system. Does "Pro" mean anything at Apple anymore? I have a powerful desktop I love, and no mobile computing device are worth my money these days. I don't need a laptop with full keyboard and trackpad when I have a $5000 desktop at home and work outside 2 days a month; tablets have crap hardware if it's not Apple, or have the least powerful OS if you want to stay in the walled Apple garden. I'll use the gift card to buy my mum and I an iPhone 12 and I'll get an Android tablet with a crap CPU that lets me run whatever I want. I hate having to compromise. EDIT: clarified why a laptop isn't a viable alternative for me

robotmay 5y ago
I've seen this opinion quite a lot recently, and I don't really understand - why do you want the iPad to be a Mac? For me the iPad Pro is a great creative device that is surprisingly capable in a variety of other ways. I use mine for programming with ease but my workflow of using Vim over mosh/tmux in blink.sh supports that. If I was looking for a portable programming machine I'd just buy a MBA I guess. I think the iPad Pro is great at what it does. It's an excellent portable creative device that can also be used casually. Not everything needs to be targeted towards every use-case.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  Why not? It has the power. It can use keyboards and mice now. Plus Android and Chrome tablets can do everything so at this point it's a little embarrassing IMO. I tried emacs over mosh for a while. It mostly worked, but there would be occasions when my Mac mini's network dropped and never recovered and then I can't do anything without heading home. Plus I would just have to live with things like shuffling that PDF I made in LaTeX over somehow because I couldn't actually see it. I prefer the iPad to Macs. I'd rather have the flexibility and portability of a tablet than a laptop. Apple's software holds back amazing hardware with arbitrary decisions. In the end I sold my iPad Pro and switched to Android.
BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> $2000 on an Apple gift card I wanted to spend on a top spec M1 iPad Pro to watch TV shows at home and take with me on travels if I need to debug issues in production or come up with a quick fix You want to spend $2000 to watch TV at home not on a TV? How would both of these desires not be significantly better satisfied by an M1 Air? > A laptop is too much Too much what? The Air costs _less_ than the 13" iPad Pro.
- 1_player 5y ago
  > A laptop is too much I don't mean price. I mean I don't need a keyboard. A tablet is the perfect form factor for consuming media 99% of the time, and a whole laptop I'd use for 1% of the time ain't worth the money. I need a mobile device I can attach to a keyboard and do "Pro" work 5 hours a month, is that much to ask?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - fossuser 5y ago
    > "I need a mobile device I can attach to a keyboard and do "Pro" work 5 hours a month, is that much to ask?" I think it's a bit of a niche use case when that pro work is software development. They can't please everyone - the design is targeted for consumption and art with some rethinking about UI for a tablet device around basic usage that's distinct from a standard laptop OS. I'd guess for 98% of users that's what they've built and their keyboard attachment allows many of them to do their work like tasks (writing/email and such). For devs they make laptops and macOS designed for that.
    - rowanG077 5y ago
      That's the entire point. You can please everyone. Just allow other OS options on the Ipad pro.
      - fossuser 5y ago
robotmay 5y ago
I've seen this opinion quite a lot recently, and I don't really understand - why do you want the iPad to be a Mac? For me the iPad Pro is a great creative device that is surprisingly capable in a variety of other ways. I use mine for programming with ease but my workflow of using Vim over mosh/tmux in blink.sh supports that. If I was looking for a portable programming machine I'd just buy a MBA I guess. I think the iPad Pro is great at what it does. It's an excellent portable creative device that can also be used casually. Not everything needs to be targeted towards every use-case. FWIW I like what I've read of iPad OS 15 so far. The multitasking changes should improve things.
- monocularvision 5y ago
  Why does software engineering never get included in the “creative” category? I would love, for my personal use, to replace my MBP with an iPad but it just won’t be possible until there is some method for executing arbitrary code, which I see as a requirement for software engineering. Even if they just made Virtualization.framework available so you could spin up a Linux VM so things were totally sandboxed, I would be able to actually use the thing as a computer. The reason for preferring this over a MBP comes down to several reasons: touch, form factor, pencil support and honest for “everyday” use, iPadOS is better than macOS.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    Speaking of, Microsoft, surprisingly, already supports WSL on Windows on ARM: https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/2019/12/how-to-install-wsl-2-on-windows-10-on-arm/ https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/2019/12/how-to-install-wsl-2-on-... And the Linux distros available there are true ARM64.
  - astrange 5y ago
    > Why does software engineering never get included in the “creative” category? Well, it's not high-status enough. Creatives have art gallery showings and groupies and die of drug overdoses on their private planes. No software engineer has ever done this.
ASalazarMX 5y ago
"Pro" has lost its meaning in the last decade. It has become a marketing buzzword that means "premium" instead of "for professionals".
- wilsonnb3 5y ago
  Or, perhaps consider that there are other kinds of professionals out there aside from software developers.
  - threeseed 5y ago
    As a software developer there is nothing worse than other software developers. They actually think that every computing product needs to be built for them and that anyone who doesn't need virtualisation, multiple monitors etc does not have "real computing needs".
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    It's beyond Apple, "pro" nowadays is used to describe service subscriptions, golf clubs, earphones, etc.
- adolph 5y ago
  Apple didn't release much of anything "Pro" in 2011. They still sold the cheesegrater with a year old chip and some laptops. No "Pro" iPad or iPhones back then. https://everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2011.html https://everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2011.h... https://everyi.com/by-year/ipod-iphone-ipad-models-released-in-2011.html https://everyi.com/by-year/ipod-iphone-ipad-models-released-...
wikibob 5y ago
Consider a remote execution and editing environment like GitHub CodeSpaces
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Considering M1 is one of the fastest CPUs in single core, that makes no sense economically.
handrous 5y ago
> I have a powerful desktop I love, and no mobile computing device are worth my money these days. I don't need a laptop with full keyboard and trackpad when I have a $5000 desktop at home and work outside 2 days a month; tablets have crap hardware if it's not Apple, or have the least powerful OS if you want to stay in the walled Apple garden. VNC? RDP? Shell? One or more of those plus a local iOS code editing program with remote-file capability, if you can't stand typing input latency? If your desktop's $5,000, and you have it set up the way you want for work, and we're only talking a couple days a month....
- robotmay 5y ago
  Exactly my setup. I use my iPad quite happily for programming on those odd days by just remoting into my desktop. I hate setting up multiple dev environments anyway so I consider this a plus. It works totally fine. Less annoying than I find most laptops tbh.
  - realitysballs 5y ago
    Ditto
threeseed 5y ago
Apple's target customer for the iPad Pro is not software engineers trying to run Docker. It's creative professionals who are using it for audio production, video editing, photography, content creation etc. Apple sells the Mac for people who want to do software engineering which includes a Terminal, Virtualisation support etc.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  But don't they ALSO sell the Mac for creative professionals who are using it for audio production, video editing, photography, content creation etc. Why can't the iPad do software engineering stuff too?
KitDuncan 5y ago
I am in the same boat as you and so tired of people telling me to just get a Macbook... I don't want a laptop.
threatofrain 5y ago
I'm not sure why a laptop isn't viable for you given your description, especially given the fact that the official Apple magic keyboard + iPad Pro 13 is actually heavier (!) and bulkier than the comparatively priced M1 Macbook Pro. That is, unless you actually want the digital art features of the iPad. If I were in your shoes, I'd wait for the anticipated Macbook Pro 14/16 with the post-M1 CPU.
- 1_player 5y ago
  Simply because a laptop has an entirely different form factor and thinner. I mostly consume media laying down on my bed with a tablet in my hand, and a keyboard is 15 cm of accessory I do not need and makes it awkward to hold. A keyboard is 50% of the device's size which I would realistically use 0.5% of the time. Why do I need to have a physically awkward device when the only thing that stops me from using more appropriate devices is Apple's short-sightedness and lacklustre software department? I don't need a 14/16 inch laptop to watch TV shows. And there is no touch screen on a MacBook Pro either.

robotmay 5y ago

I've seen this opinion quite a lot recently, and I don't really understand - why do you want the iPad to be a Mac? For me the iPad Pro is a great creative device that is surprisingly capable in a variety of other ways. I use mine for programming with ease but my workflow of using Vim over mosh/tmux in blink.sh supports that. If I was looking for a portable programming machine I'd just buy a MBA I guess. I think the iPad Pro is great at what it does. It's an excellent portable creative device that can also be used casually. Not everything needs to be targeted towards every use-case.

salamandersauce 5y ago
Why not? It has the power. It can use keyboards and mice now. Plus Android and Chrome tablets can do everything so at this point it's a little embarrassing IMO. I tried emacs over mosh for a while. It mostly worked, but there would be occasions when my Mac mini's network dropped and never recovered and then I can't do anything without heading home. Plus I would just have to live with things like shuffling that PDF I made in LaTeX over somehow because I couldn't actually see it. I prefer the iPad to Macs. I'd rather have the flexibility and portability of a tablet than a laptop. Apple's software holds back amazing hardware with arbitrary decisions. In the end I sold my iPad Pro and switched to Android.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago

> $2000 on an Apple gift card I wanted to spend on a top spec M1 iPad Pro to watch TV shows at home and take with me on travels if I need to debug issues in production or come up with a quick fix You want to spend $2000 to watch TV at home not on a TV? How would both of these desires not be significantly better satisfied by an M1 Air? > A laptop is too much Too much what? The Air costs _less_ than the 13" iPad Pro.

1_player 5y ago
> A laptop is too much I don't mean price. I mean I don't need a keyboard. A tablet is the perfect form factor for consuming media 99% of the time, and a whole laptop I'd use for 1% of the time ain't worth the money. I need a mobile device I can attach to a keyboard and do "Pro" work 5 hours a month, is that much to ask?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fossuser 5y ago
  > "I need a mobile device I can attach to a keyboard and do "Pro" work 5 hours a month, is that much to ask?" I think it's a bit of a niche use case when that pro work is software development. They can't please everyone - the design is targeted for consumption and art with some rethinking about UI for a tablet device around basic usage that's distinct from a standard laptop OS. I'd guess for 98% of users that's what they've built and their keyboard attachment allows many of them to do their work like tasks (writing/email and such). For devs they make laptops and macOS designed for that.
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    That's the entire point. You can please everyone. Just allow other OS options on the Ipad pro.
    - fossuser 5y ago

robotmay 5y ago

monocularvision 5y ago
Why does software engineering never get included in the “creative” category? I would love, for my personal use, to replace my MBP with an iPad but it just won’t be possible until there is some method for executing arbitrary code, which I see as a requirement for software engineering. Even if they just made Virtualization.framework available so you could spin up a Linux VM so things were totally sandboxed, I would be able to actually use the thing as a computer. The reason for preferring this over a MBP comes down to several reasons: touch, form factor, pencil support and honest for “everyday” use, iPadOS is better than macOS.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Speaking of, Microsoft, surprisingly, already supports WSL on Windows on ARM: https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/2019/12/how-to-install-wsl-2-on-windows-10-on-arm/ https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/2019/12/how-to-install-wsl-2-on-... And the Linux distros available there are true ARM64.
- astrange 5y ago
  > Why does software engineering never get included in the “creative” category? Well, it's not high-status enough. Creatives have art gallery showings and groupies and die of drug overdoses on their private planes. No software engineer has ever done this.

ASalazarMX 5y ago

"Pro" has lost its meaning in the last decade. It has become a marketing buzzword that means "premium" instead of "for professionals".

wilsonnb3 5y ago
Or, perhaps consider that there are other kinds of professionals out there aside from software developers.
- threeseed 5y ago
  As a software developer there is nothing worse than other software developers. They actually think that every computing product needs to be built for them and that anyone who doesn't need virtualisation, multiple monitors etc does not have "real computing needs".
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  It's beyond Apple, "pro" nowadays is used to describe service subscriptions, golf clubs, earphones, etc.
adolph 5y ago
Apple didn't release much of anything "Pro" in 2011. They still sold the cheesegrater with a year old chip and some laptops. No "Pro" iPad or iPhones back then. https://everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2011.html https://everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2011.h... https://everyi.com/by-year/ipod-iphone-ipad-models-released-in-2011.html https://everyi.com/by-year/ipod-iphone-ipad-models-released-...

wikibob 5y ago

Consider a remote execution and editing environment like GitHub CodeSpaces

lostmsu 5y ago
Considering M1 is one of the fastest CPUs in single core, that makes no sense economically.

handrous 5y ago

> I have a powerful desktop I love, and no mobile computing device are worth my money these days. I don't need a laptop with full keyboard and trackpad when I have a $5000 desktop at home and work outside 2 days a month; tablets have crap hardware if it's not Apple, or have the least powerful OS if you want to stay in the walled Apple garden. VNC? RDP? Shell? One or more of those plus a local iOS code editing program with remote-file capability, if you can't stand typing input latency? If your desktop's $5,000, and you have it set up the way you want for work, and we're only talking a couple days a month....

robotmay 5y ago
Exactly my setup. I use my iPad quite happily for programming on those odd days by just remoting into my desktop. I hate setting up multiple dev environments anyway so I consider this a plus. It works totally fine. Less annoying than I find most laptops tbh.
- realitysballs 5y ago
  Ditto

threeseed 5y ago

Apple's target customer for the iPad Pro is not software engineers trying to run Docker. It's creative professionals who are using it for audio production, video editing, photography, content creation etc. Apple sells the Mac for people who want to do software engineering which includes a Terminal, Virtualisation support etc.

salamandersauce 5y ago
But don't they ALSO sell the Mac for creative professionals who are using it for audio production, video editing, photography, content creation etc. Why can't the iPad do software engineering stuff too?

KitDuncan 5y ago

I am in the same boat as you and so tired of people telling me to just get a Macbook... I don't want a laptop.

threatofrain 5y ago

I'm not sure why a laptop isn't viable for you given your description, especially given the fact that the official Apple magic keyboard + iPad Pro 13 is actually heavier (!) and bulkier than the comparatively priced M1 Macbook Pro. That is, unless you actually want the digital art features of the iPad. If I were in your shoes, I'd wait for the anticipated Macbook Pro 14/16 with the post-M1 CPU.

1_player 5y ago
Simply because a laptop has an entirely different form factor and thinner. I mostly consume media laying down on my bed with a tablet in my hand, and a keyboard is 15 cm of accessory I do not need and makes it awkward to hold. A keyboard is 50% of the device's size which I would realistically use 0.5% of the time. Why do I need to have a physically awkward device when the only thing that stops me from using more appropriate devices is Apple's short-sightedness and lacklustre software department? I don't need a 14/16 inch laptop to watch TV shows. And there is no touch screen on a MacBook Pro either.